heli skis, northern escape heli skis

HELISKIS – Helicopter Skis – Heli Skis – Review of Heliskiing Operators Heli Skis

HELI SKIS – Helicopter Skis – Heli Skis

Review of Heliskiing Operators’ Heli Skis

Heliskis are important for heliskiing.   But what Heli Skis to popular operators ski?

HELISKI.com asked some of our popular heliski operators what heli skis they use, how they choose heli skis, and what assortment of helicopter skis they have in their quiver.   Below are the heli skiing operators discussions of heli skis.


Tyax Lodge and Heli Skiing / TLH Heli Skis

Anne Haight of Tyax Lodge and Heli Skiing (TLH) wrote this about their heliskis:

Hi Tom,
In terms of powder skis, we offer a combination of Rossignol Super 7 and Soul 7, and new for this season, K2 Mindbender 108ti and 116c, all in various lengths.
I use the Rossi Soul 7 when I go.

Northern Escape Heli Skiing Heliskis

John Forrest, GM Northern Escape Heli Skiing replied about their heli skis:

Morning Tom,

We’re right I. The middle of guides training and everyone is pretty busy. I can help quickly though.
We always choose a variety of skis. Most companies have gone away from the completely up-side-down skis (reverse camber) and opted for what I call bent tip and tail skis (early rise). We’ve always felt our skis require camber for the average skier in our deep snow conditions so we seek out skis that still have a reasonable camber and minimal early rise.
I know that goes against all the Marketing from the ski companies that want to sell you skis, but after nearly 4 decades of Heli Skiing I’ve seen a lot of marketing selling gimmicks…😎 (some of you will remember sending skis in for warranty when you bent the tip cause it skied like shit…)
With our deep powder we also look for the Fatest skis we can find. You need/want the widest skis possible up here.
We chose the Blizzard Spur and the K2 Mindbender as a good selection for our guests. I really like the Spur personally.

Northern Escape Heli Skiing Heli skis

Martin Wehan of Skeena Heli Skiing added this about their heli skis:

 heli skis, northern escape heli skis
Why? Because it works and guests have fun. Great quality, we can keep the skis in our line up for 3 seasons no problem.

Tim Wilkinson, heliski industry veteran and also from Skeena Heliskiing offered this on their Kastle heli skis?:

Funny the timing of this Tom.

I’m about to share an IG Reel that includes an interview with Sascha Schmid, a Swiss freeskier (ex world cup, Freeride World Tour, tons of movies etc) who skis and works with Kästle, and heliskis with us every winter. In the interview we ask him about Kästle and Skeena, and here’s what he said:
Skeena Heliskiing: You work very closely with Kästle as an athlete and on product development. Why do you think Kästle skis are a good fit for Skeena?
Sascha Schmid: Because we are producing high-quality skis and that’s what Skeena has in terms of a high-quality heliski experience. That’s the main point, we have really good, high quality products for passionate skiers. Kästle is not the biggest company, that means we do not change every year the direction of marketing and the whole ski range.

Dave M, Ski Expert, Curated.com

For heli skis, I like rocker in both tip and tail, and ski width 110 plus.  I prefer very close to center mount on the ski, and a decent amount of rocker in the tail – a must have feature for my powder skis.  More side cut for added floatation and added width is expected.

Mike Wiegele Helicopter Skiing Heli Skis

Ryan Bush gave us this funny summary from Mike Wiegele Helicopter Skiing about the MWHS stable of heli skis:
Short and fat is where it’s at! The days of 210 straight skis are long behind us. It’s a well-known story around Blue River that Mike Wiegele sat down in a bar with his good friend Rupert, from Atomic skis, and drew up the design of the first powder ski on a napkin. His concept and inspiration were taken from the snowboards of the day, later evolving into the Atomic Powder Plus, and the Atomic Powder Cruise. This still remains true to this day; a fat ski provides more floatation bringing the skier out of the snow making it easier for them to pivot the ski! Our most popular ski and what we refer to as a day saver, is the K2 Pon2oon. The Pon2oon is offered in 10cm increments from 159cm through to 189cm. This ski has been a part of K2’s fleet for years and MWHS guides have been working alongside the K2 R&D team in hopes of building the next best thing in years to come. A new addition to our fleet this season is the K2 Dispatch, 120 mm underfoot and this ski’s light weight construction will surely be a guest favorite this season!
Our long history with Atomic should not be understated, and in fact the majority of our fleet is made up of the Atomic Backland 117mm and 107mm waist.
Our Backlands are complete with custom Mike Wiegele top sheets to highlight the long-lasting relationship with the brand.
The other ski that has been in our fleet for years has been the Atomic Bent Chetler. This ski has seen many alterations since its conception some 12 -15 years ago but has been a staple ski at MWHS ever since.
I’ve attached our full list of skis but in the text above I’ve highlighted our favorites.
Mike Wiegele Helicopter Skiing Heli skis, Heli Skis
mike wiegele heli skis, wiegele heli skis
Mike Wiegele heli skis, heli skis mike wiegele helicopter skis
heli skis used by mike wiegele helicopter skiing in 2023, heli skis
Wiegele heli skis, mike wiegele heli skis mike wiegele helicopter skiing heli skis, heli skis wiegele Wiglie helicopter sks, wiegly heli skis

Ryan Bush


Bella Coola Heli Sports Heli Skis

Ben Duthie of Bella Coola Heli Sports offers the following on their heli skis:

For our heli skis, we have brought in a new line-up of Salomon, Armada, and Blizzards. All three of these brands represent the best of the best when it comes to performance skis and it is important to us that we offer a wide variety of lengths, widths, and stiffness options for our clients.
At 112 underfoot, the Salomon QST Blank is made for Bella Coola. It is an extremely light and playful powder ski, yet still incredibly stable at speed. It also guarantees the required floatation to get the most out of the deep conditions Bella Coola routinely offers.
The Armada ARV and JJ line-up has been a core offering for Bella Coola for many years and is a crowd favourite amongst our guides. With a poplar-ash core, these skis are incredibly responsive and offer tremendous pop in playful terrain. They offer tremendous floatation without compromising stability from tip to tail.
Heli Skis Bella Coola Heli Skiing, heli skis
For our snowboards, we have partnered exclusively with Burton Snowboards. Their length of tenure in the industry and unsurpassed commitment to quality made it a no-brainer for us. We have opted for a traditional twin in the Flight Attendant and a more surf-oriented directional powder board in the Fish 3D for our 2023 offering.
The Flight Attendant gives those riders who are more familiar with a traditional camber board the opportunity to experiment with a tight turning board that performs as well on hardpack as it does in powder. Riding in Bella Coola presents riders with a full bouquet of line selection choices as well as the opportunity to explore massive amounts of terrain. We wanted to choose a board that can handle it all. From deep powder slashes to moraines and wind lips, to mixed conditions in transition zones in the high alpine. This board does it all.
The Fish 3D is just fun! It builds on years of product design prototypes and the integration of the 3D nose makes it unbelievably responsive and playful in the deepest conditions. This board is an all-time favorite for many of our team members and our guests are quickly learning why. This increased width allows guests to ride a shorter board than they are used to which also increased maneuverability and playfulness right out of the helicopter.
Bella Coola Heli Skiing Heli skis, Heli skis

Heli Skis and Heli Snowboards at Silvertip Heli Skiing

Silvertip Heli Skiing did not comment, but sent us a list of the Heli skis they like.

Heli Skis

K2 Pon2oon 132
Shane McConkey arguably single-handedly changed the direction of the sport of skiing and ski design with his devil-may-care attitude and out-of-the-box thinking about what a ski can do. His legend lives on in the K2 Pon2oon, a full-on power powder ski that is designed to do one thing—rip deep snow on THE pow day of the year.
Available in 189, 179, 169, and 159cm

K2 Mindbender 116
The Mindbender is a powder ski built for those epic days everyone dreams of. A generous 116mm waist floats through powder and powers through chop. Featuring Spectral Braid technology, and Power Rocker profile, this surprisingly lightweight ski lets you take on the burliest of lines and the reality of getting to the stash and back again. A favorite amongst team riders like Max Hitzig and Taylor Pratt.
Available in 193, 186, 179, 172, 165cm

Dynastar M-FREE 108
This progressive freeride ski is an ode to freedom and a very lightweight toy for forays between the trees or fast-paced descents in the middle of beautiful virgin slopes. Its Hybrid Core technology combines Poplar, a natural and high-performance material offering an excellent balance of rigidity and responsiveness, with P.U. for suppleness and ideal dampening.
Available in 189, 180cm

Salomon QST 118
QST 118 is the widest ski in the range, with full twin rocker to help you float in the deepest powder. You can also charge with confidence with the C/FX layer, a unique reinforcement that delivers all the power of metal at a fraction of the weight.
Available in 192, 185, 181, 178, 174 and 171cm.

Salomon Rocker 122
A playful deep powder ski. The super-wide platform, TWIN Rocker profile and very lightweight tip and tail construction let you surf in deep powder.
Even the sidecut helps reduce tip and tail hang up especially in mixed snow.
Available in 192, 184, 180 and 172cm.

Salomon Rocker 108
Twin Rocker – Long, low rocker shape at the tip and tail enables more playful, easy pivoting in powder and excellent flotation. Retains long contact zone on edge with camber in the middle of the ski for stability in all-mountain skiing.
Available in 174 cm.

Salomon QST Stella 108
Go beyond the trails with QST STELLA 106. The Spaceframe has an inverted 3D Woodcore for power and floatation in varied snow conditions. And the C/FX reinforcement provides a smooth ride with minimal weight.
Available in 158 and 167 cm.

Heli Snowboards

Salomon Takaharu Nakai
Designed and built from start to finish by snowboard icons Wolfgang Nyvelt and Takaharu Nakai. This board brings a unique tapered directional profile featuring Powder Camber profile and tons of rocker on the nose making this masterpiece extremely nimble and smooth.
Available in 161cm

Salomon Wolle Nyvelt Fish
The HPS Wolle Nyvelt Fish is a celebration of Wolle’s profound expertise in shaping powder snowboards. Focused on craftsmanship using the finest materials, the tapered directional HPS Fish features Powder Camber and a precise torsional flex for a playful board with superior control, float, and maneuverability. Wolle’s crystal magnifying device.
Available in 161cm

Salomon Snowboard First Call
The First Call introduces a shaped powder board focused on the freestyle rider. Take it from wind lips to cat tracks, park to pow; the First Call offers a unique look at freestyle riding while bringing all the technical goods to the table.
Available in 151, 157 and 162 cm.

Salomon Snowboard Super 8
The Super 8 Snowboard is designed with Backseat Camber that puts the power and control under your back foot, whether you’re ripping pow or laying down turns on groomers. Featuring Rocket Science—a wider design for loose and wild maneuverability, this board has power, speed, control, and belongs in every quiver.
Available in 160 and 163cm.

Salomon Snowboard Pillow Talk
This tapered twin is tailored specifically for women featuring a wider design for maneuverability and floatation in deep snow. Powder focused shape providing 10-12mm of taper keeping you on top of fresh snow.
Available in 151 cm.

Salomon Snowboard SickStick
A Directional Twin with taper and Rock Out Camber for pop and float in any condition.
Available in 157, 161cm


Series – How to Pick the Best Heliskiing #7 – Helicopters – Size Matters

How to Pick the Best Heliskiing #7 – Helicopters

There are several helicopters common in the heliskiing industry.  Most popular with the boutique operators is the A-Star.  It typically carries four guests across a bench-like seat in the back; the pilot and guide sit in front. Some get five guests in each lift.  It also comes in variety of models: A, B, B2, B3, BA and D.  Operators may run two, three or four groups of this size.  Most will run three small groups per helicopter.

AStar NE Heliskiing

The Bell 407 typically seats five in the rear; the pilot and guide are up front (With the exception of the last ride home – don’t be shy about asking!)

 

 

RK Heliski Bell 204 helicopter

 

Bell 204 shuttles up to 7 guests to the powder at RK Heliski.

Bell 205 and 212 carry up to eleven guests, a guide and a pilot.  CMH, Wiegele and TLH primarily run Bell 212 helicopters, seating up to 11 guests.

tj HeliPanaorama cmh adamants

Here I am saying, “I brought 9 buddies.  Today, Bigger is Better at CMH!”

 

There are trade-offs.  Bigger helicopters have somewhat longer load and unload time.  But the biggest difference is skiing in lager groups.  Some terrain does not lend itself to 12-52 sets of tracks.   Operators with smaller helicopters, and thus smaller groups, have more flexibility in arranging groups, reaching terrain, etc.

The big advantage of the big helicopters is cost.   It is significantly less expensive to lift one group of 12 than three groups of 4.   Whether or not the savings are passed on to the guests in the form of lower prices depends on the operator….

Northern Escape Heli Skiing uniquely offers the Koala helicopter, seating 6 guests, and running three groups per helicopter.

NEH Lodge and chopper 500

The number of groups served is also a very important consideration.   TLH offers just one group of 10 per Bell 212, which rocks.

Private packages are offered by most operators, with just one group having exclusive use of the machine.   With 7 or more in a group, a private may be the best deal. HELISKI.com is happy to help find the best arrangement for your group.

Tell us how many in your group, and we will give you the best options.

opedix heli-skiing tights, best knee support for skiing

Opedix Compression Garments – Best Knee Support for Skiing

What is the best knee support for skiing?

 

opedix heli-skiing tights, best knee support for skiing

After ‘retiring’ in Vail, Opedix founder Kim Gustafson developed an interest in compression garments to protect joints and reduce fatigue. He sent me a pair, and I am a believer. Our conversation follows.

1.  My friend Steve tells me I don’t have a bad knee – I have a good knee that gets a little sore.  So what is the idea behind your orthopedic knee support tights?  Are they the best knee support for skiing?

The knee is a joint that is subject to degeneration through everyday “wear and tear.”  If a person is involved where the knee joint is used excessively, like skiing, the degeneration occurs at a more rapid pace. There is an expression which I have found to be quite accurate, “It’s not if but when a person starts to experience knee issues, specifically, knee pain.”  The Opedix tights reduce the “load” (wear and tear) on one’s knees, whatever the condition of the knee.  If one can preserve the knee joint even when it is “healthy,” why wouldn’t someone take that preventative measure?  Our tights are actually a “soft knee brace” build into a compression base layer.

2.  Opedix claims to reduce quad fatigue, destructive knee forces, and knee pain.   I was skeptical until I read your research.  Can you summarize why it’s the  best knee support for skiing?

The best summary I can give you is a copy of an independently conducted test by Michael Decker, Ph.D., research scientist at the University of Denver’s biomechanics laboratory at the University of Denver. The data was put together in a “scientific white paper,”  available on request.  [ Summary at the bottom of this post]

3.  Who did you test, skiers who want the best knee brace for skiing?   What did you learn?

This test involved 325 Vail Resorts and Aspen ski instructors, borders and patrollers.  Salient points:  “Knee pain, stiffness, and quadriceps fatigue have reduced an average of 28%.”

[They way they ski, I don’t think ski instructors get fatigued…..]

Fatigue and injury are directly related.  Not everyone experiences knee pain but everyone experiences quad fatigue, especially when skiing powder.

5.  Dr. Steadman of Vail may be the most famous knee doc.  What was his involvement creating the best knee support for skiing?

Dr. Steadman has performed surgery on my left knee five times, got to know him better than planned.  There are two components to the Steadman group; 1) The Steadman Clinic which is comprised of the orthopedic medical doctors, including Dr. Steadman and
2) The Steadman Philippon Research Institute, this is a nonprofit orthopedic research laboratory make up of several top scientific research Ph.D.’s.  The Opedix tights were developed by myself and several of these Ph.D.s.  Dr. Steadman had no direct involvement with the development of our tights but has been a great supporter of the product.  [pun intended?]

6.  How about Wayne Wong?  Does he use a knee compression sleeve for skiing?

Just skied with Wayne a half day last Spring here in Vail. He says he has no knee pain, unbelievable, but says he wears our tights to reduce quad fatigue.  His legs feel better and stronger at the end of a day of skiing and allow him to start the next day with his legs in better physical condition.

The design reminds me of the kinesiology tape used by beach volleyball players in the Olympics.  [I only watched for medical purposes]

best knee brace skiing, best knee sleeves for skiing

7.  Would you call Opedix knee compression sleeve a knee brace for skiing light?

Our tights are actually a “soft brace” built into a compression base layer. When studied using “motion analysis” equipment in The Steadman Philippon Research Institute’s laboratory, the tests showed the tights unload the knees by 17%; a traditional hard brace unloads the knees around 30% and that’s if one is wearing the brace.  So, your designation of “Knee-brace light” is accurate.

8.  When I put them on, I realize the reinforce the IT band, that I always hear about during a massage…as in ‘your IT band is tight’.  I also notice that the area directly over the knee is not applying pressure, for which my chondromalacia patella thanks you.  So how does it keep my knee cap tracking without direct manipulation of a knee compression sleve for skiing?

Restricting the movement of a healthy knee (patella) is not good.  Our tights do not restrict the knee; the nonstretch banding that starts at the hip, goes around the patella and supports both the lateral and medial side of the knee and ends at the ankle is what is keeping your knee cap tracking as well as providing the “unloading” component.

9.  I am a believer.  I just tried them heliskiing, and I think it’s the best knee support for skiing!  They feel more solid and stable than a knee brace for skiing.

This video is a good overview.   [Kinda scary opening shot…I guess fear sells.]

10.  They aren’t the cheapest knee brace for skiing, eh?

Some people compare our tights to other compression tights which cost a lot less.  However, our tights provide “soft bracing” as discussed earlier.  Sewing a nonstretch banding onto a four-way stretch material is labor intensive and can’t be totally automated on some type of sewing machine.  No one really cares but we have been at this for a good six years, starting from a concept to a finished product and have spent a lot of time and money getting there.

We have several non solicited comments come back to us from skiers that say their knee pain has been substantially reduced or eliminated and they can ski longer days and enjoy those special days on the mountain more, that is more than worth $190.00.  

11.  How does your knee compression sleeve for skiing protect muscles?

Scientific research  has  shown  that  compression garments (CG)  protects muscles and can  delay  fatigue  by:                    

  • Increasing arterial blood flow to the muscles
  • Increasing venous blood flow from the muscles 
  • Attenuating blood lactate levels 
  • Reducing muscle vibration 
  • Reducing the rise in core temperature during activity

12.  How does the knee support sleeve for skiing protect joints, especially my knees?!

Research performed with this technology has found:

  • Enhanced knee performance  
  • Enhanced knee alignment  
  • Reduced knee joint loading  
  • Reduced knee pain and stiffness  
  • Reduced rates of fatigue

13.  WOW, how is it on stains? [ Kidding, a line from Outlaw Josey Wales.]  Clint Eastwood might also like the best knee support for skiing…

14.  Where can heliskiers get Opedix knee sleeves for skiing?

At the Opedix web site

15.  What else would you like our heliskiers to know about Opedix, the best knee support for skiing?

Unlike so many companies who really don’t want to get into the “science” of their products and/or how they back up their product claims, we enjoy the opportunity to discuss these issues.  If you have any further questions or need any clarification on any points, please contact me.    

Our product testing is done at two orthopedic research laboratories, The Steadman Philippon Research Institute, and the biomechanics laboratory at The University of Denver.  Both of these research labs are independent and not affiliated with any company.

I appreciate your interest in our products and the science behind them.  You may also enjoy this video.

Thanks, Kim!

tj

Revision Skis – Leading Edge Powder Skis, Leading Edge Prices

“Recently, Revision Skis officially introduced their brand of skis to the freeskiing market. Revision Skis spent last season working on prototypes with a group of freestyle skiers. After multiple iterations of prototyping, they have released two models of skis this fall. The model that is most appealing to heliskiers is the Subtraction. The Subtraction is a twin tip powder ski built for deep snow. This winter we will be testing the Subtraction with heli skiing operators and will be posting a full review here. Stay tuned!”

 

Revision Subtraction heliskis

 

 

There are some pow shots in this video, but also a lot of park and urban…..

 

Freshness by Revision Skis from Revision Skis

 

ShipSkis from ShipSticks – No Hassle Ski Shipping. HELISKI.com Interview

Ship Skis HELISKI.com Interview

heliskiing shipping

We discovered the coolest way to get your skis to your heliski (or resort) destinationShip Skis.   Yesterday they emailed me a shipping label which I printed and handed to a FedEx driver along with my ski bag – stuffed with clothes and my powder boards.   I will rendezvous with them at Eagle Pass Heli-Skiing on Sunday…then they will be picked up from Great Canadian Heli-Skiing the following week.  No schlepping, bag fees, roof racks, bellmen…..brilliant!

ship heliskis now logoheliski bag pick up

They pick up and deliver….anywhere.  They handle everything and are around if you need them.  They can do it in a day or slower/cheaper.  I asked if they had thought about golf clubs…..yeah, a long time ago.

Ship Skis: You asked about golf clubs, and that’s how the whole business was based. Our parent company, Ship Sticks, was created two years ago. That took off and did extremely well, so we kind of started to branch out into other sectors, and that’s how it came about, Ship Skis. So Ship Skis is…this is really our first ski season that we’ve been in full operation. So it’s going extremely well and we’re excited about it, so.

TJ: Hey, that’s cool.  So Ship Sticks, how many sticks do you ship in a year? That kind of sounds like a tongue-twister, doesn’t it?

Ship Skis: It does. I mean, and to be quite honest with you, we do, I mean, between skis, luggage and sticks, it’s hundreds of thousands of shipments a year. So it’s extremely successful and it’s taken off in every aspect, and we couldn’t be happier.

TJ: And it seems like bikes is another one that I would be interested in. Do you do bikes?

Ship Skis: It’s funny because I have kind of taken on the Ship Skis project here within the company, and as we started to meet with the resorts and as we started to create relationships with some of these ski areas, that’s the first question that they ask above and beyond skis, was, “Do you guys ship bikes?” And the answer to that is yes, we do absolutely ship bikes.

TJ: So how does it work?

Ship Skis: So basically the way Ship Skis works is it’s a door-to-door shipment service. We’re obviously partnered with UPS and FedEx, so they’re the ones that’ll actually be doing the ski shipping, luggage or boots or whatever ski unit that you decide that you want to ship, including snowboards. But we basically manage the technology aspect of it. So unlike some other sites that are out there, you know, where you call them or you go on their website and you process your shipment, they’re going to send you in the mail a shipment label, whereas with Ship Skis, our technology is integrated with UPS and FedEx where it automatically generates the shipping label for you. So it’s instantaneous. So you could schedule a shipment the morning of the day you needed to have it picked up, and it would schedule the pickup for you as well as generate the label right for you right then and there. So you’re not having to plan this out several days in advance. Obviously, you can do so, but you also have the option to drop it off if you don’t want to be home or you had other errands to run. You could also drop it off at any UPS or FedEx store if that’s easier for you.

TJ: So what countries do you operate in?

Ship Skis: Worldwide.  It’s international for all the luggage, skis and golf. Some countries can be a little cost-prohibitive just because of the taxes, tariffs and that kind of thing.

TJ: And do you run…I know going in and out of Canada sometimes they want to know are these promotional items and there’s all kinds of strange nuances depending on the country, right?

Ship Skis: Right. So, unfortunately, with international shipments we’re unable to do that online at this point just because of the custom paperwork and that kind of stuff that has to be done. But we do do it over the phone. We still email you the shipping labels and the custom paperwork right away. But we handle all customs for you. I mean, so it’s kind of I’d say a convenience/concierge type of service as well where you don’t have to sit there and fill out forms and do all that stuff. It’s all automated and emailed right to you. All you have to do is really just to make sure that it’s attached to the skis or luggage that you’re shipping and the way it goes. And if there are any issues with customs, we handle that inside of UPS and/or FedEx.

TJ: That’s cool.  Canada?

Ship

Skis: Yes, absolutely.   Canada, we know you know, Canada is probably one of the easiest countries to ship in and out of from an international standpoint.

TJ: Got it. You know, over 90% of heli-skiing is in Canada.

Ship Skis: Right.

TJ: How far in advance do you pick them up?

Ship Skis: It really just depends on, you know, the time of transit, where the individual is shipping from and to. So, I mean, I would say an international round shipment into Canada is going to take anywhere from four to six business days. Now, we do have a couple of other options, you know, an economy and a priority. I mean, so technically it could get there in one day and it could take as long as six days, you know, just depending on how you plan in advance and how soon that you them at that location.

TJ: One day, that’s awesome!  So if my wife says, “Oh, you can’t have the big car to go to the airport,” I could call you guys and say, “Can you get my skis there?” And you would say….

Ship Skis: “Yeah, absolutely.”

TJ: That is awesome. That’s amazing.

Ship Skis: Yeah, absolutely.

TJ: Oh, can you pack it with other stuff?  I guess it’s pretty obvious if it’s FedEx and UPS.

Ship Skis: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, basically what it comes down to from a pricing standpoint is weight, you know.  We really don’t care what’s inside the bag, so much as much as it weighs. So we have a single ski option, we have a double ski option. Can you throw in some clothes, a helmet and that kind of stuff? Yeah, absolutely, you can. Now, the single ski can’t weigh any more than 25 pounds. That’s what we list on our website. We do have a five-pound cushion, so technically you can go up to 30 pounds.  -So yeah, absolutely. If you need to throw some extra gloves or hats or whatever it may be in there, you’re more than welcome to do so.

TJ: Yeah, because a lot of these…sometimes the second flight you take, they are limited to the weight and the size of the bag. And I’ve seen them leave skis and boards in Vancouver, and you get to where you’re going and they say, “Sorry, we were a little over on that flight, but they’ll show up tomorrow.” [Laughs]

Ship Skis: Right, yeah.

TJ: Yeah, so I’m thinking just bulk stuff, you know? Like various layers and soft goods and that sort of thing. You might as well just stick them in there and save yourself schlepping the bag.

Ship Skis: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you could stick it all in one bag. Some people have large duffel bags. Some people have just the slimmer ones, and then they’ll pack a separate piece of luggage and ship luggage with it as well as a suitcase, so you could just wrap the tag around it and send it on its way, you’re good to go.

TJ: I flew in to Terrace with one of the owners of Northern Escape Heli-Skiing and he had a carry-on bag. [Laughs] I couldn’t believe it!

Ship Skis: Really?

TJ: He goes heli-skiing with a carry-on, yeah.

Ship Skis: Oh, that’s amazing.

TJ: It was amazing. And you always carry your boots on, of course.

Ship Skis: Sure, sure, absolutely.

TJ: Oh, so let’s say I’m going to go to this place in Revelstoke, it’s really a hotel, where do they keep the bags before I arrive?

Ship Skis: So more than likely they’ve had items shipped in there before, and a majority of the resorts that we’ve worked with from a bulk standpoint and as we began to grow Ship Skis as well, these resorts that we work with on a ski basis, if we’re not partnered with them, we’ll call them on your behalf ahead of time to make them aware that, “Hey, Mr. Jackson is  going to be staying with you on this date and this date. He’s going to be shipping in his skis and any other ski gear that he’s decided to ship with us. One, is that okay? Two, are there any fees involved? Really, we have yet to have an issue with these except for Las Vegas. Some of the hotels in Las Vegas from a golf club standpoint will say, “Okay, it’s going to be 25 dollars a day to hold it.” Some people don’t mind it, some people do. But we like to make them aware of it ahead of time so they’re not saying, “Hey, you got to let me know this.”

TJ: Yeah.

Ship Skis: So at the end of the day, if we’re not partnered with them, we definitely give them a call, we make sure it’s okay and make sure there’s no issues, and just make them aware that, “Hey, Mr. Jackson is going to be shipping in as well as shipping out on these dates, so you’re aware.”  And nine times out of 10 it’s not an issue with the hotel as long as the guest is staying there at the hotel.

TJ: You’ll probably get more business from our clients with the Ship Sticks than the Ship Skis because they fly all over the place and play a lot more golf than they do heli-skiing. Most people take one heli-ski trip a year.

Ship Skis: Sure, sure, I understand.

TJ: I just thought of something else. You know, one of the things that surprises me about heli-skiing is that the operators give you really crappy ski poles. I don’t know why that is but they’re all these old, fat, heavy aluminum things like you would get at a rental shop in the eighties, and I don’t understand it.

Ship Skis: Sure.

TJ: So I would think shipping your own poles would make perfect sense and you’d throw them in with your skis.

Ship Skis: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, we’ll never turn business away. No matter what it is, we’re happy to ship it.

TJ: Yeah, I’m thinking you’re shipping your skis, might as well throw your poles in there and get decent poles while you’re at it.

Ship Skis: Exactly. Exactly. So it’s our goal to make it as easy as possible on the client, to make sure that they enjoy their travels to where it is that they’re going and that they don’t have to worry about sitting in a baggage claim and being nickeled and dimed by the airlines these days. So in some instances we do get a phone call that, “Hey, the airline’s charging me 35 bucks. You guys are 49 dollars.” Yeah, we understand that, but at what point are you going to pay the extra 15 dollars and say, “Okay, I don’t need that kind of rental car anymore because my skis are there?” And it becomes a convenience factor especially with skis and golf clubs, especially when you have a family of five that you’re going skiing with or a group of guys who need to rent a van. So just the whole process just makes it easier on everybody.

TJ: Amen to that. I mean, schlepping them is really the hassle. I’ve had to go stand by in a Vancouver airport for like 48 hours straight waiting on each flight coming up, trying to get on it…

Ship Skis: Wow.

TJ: …and had I had skis with me, it would have been a huge pain in the butt.

Ship Skis: And that’s how we really created our first partnership, Bandon Dunes Golf Resort on the Oregon coast.  Because it was so difficult to get in and out of there out of small planes. They partnered with us and recommended to everybody to ship with ShipSticks.com in and out because our delivery rate of 98% versus people shoving people on the small planes saying, “You can’t take those, we don’t have room,” is much more significant than us getting them there. So they are one of our strongest partners just because of the inconvenience of traveling and getting to those locations, and I imagine that’s the same aspect with the heli-skiing, is that you’re going to some locations where you’re taking smaller planes and things like that to get in and out of there.

TJ: Well, and sometimes a helicopter, but yeah, it strikes me that the golf clubs are even more critical because they’re much more personalized and difficult to replace.

Ship Skis: Exactly. Exactly.

TJ: So what about insurance? What if my sticks don’t show up where I’m going?

Ship Skis: Sure. Basically that’s…and that’s one of the benefits of using Ship Sticks or Ship Skis, and what makes us so different from FedEx and UPS.  You know, obviously besides price—we’re cheaper than both FedEx and UPS—is that all of our shipments come standard with a baseline of insurance. So, for instance, skis come standard with 500 dollars of insurance and golf clubs come standard with 1000 dollars of insurance. And then, for a nominal fee, you have the ability to purchase up to 3500 dollars on each item of additional insurance should you need it. And let’s say that a driver or a ski is damaged – we handle everything on your behalf with UPS Capital Claims. So that’s where our insurance is through. So you’re not sitting there playing phone tag with them and going back and forth. We handle everything for you…

TJ: Yeah, my Delta Airlines story, right? Did you…?

Ship Skis: Yeah, I saw that., did they lose them completely? Are they gone?

TJ: It was funny, when I got there—I was going to Florida. I had business for a few days, and when I went to play golf and my driver was broken. So I rented one or whatever. On the way home, as I was checking in, I said, “Hey, you guys broke my driver on the way down here.” And they gave me a real hard time like, “Well, how do you know we broke it?” And I said, “Well, I didn’t open my bag until I played,” you know, on and on. And so they said, “Alright, well, you can file a claim,” yada yada. When I got home, the clubs never showed up at all!

Ship Skis: Wow.

TJ: [Laughs] So then I had to file a claim for the lost bag, and I bet it was two months before I got anything out of them. And then a long, long time later, they called me. This Oakland baggage claim guy goes, “I wanted to call you personally because I’m a golfer and I really feel bad about this, but we found your bag.” And when it showed up, the travel bag that it was in was completely gone. The bag itself was almost completely destroyed, like the pockets were all torn, all of the stuff was gone out of them. The driver they had broken driver on the outbound flight is now completely gone along with some other clubs, and a couple of irons were bent. So apparently it got run over either by a truck or a plane. They weren’t really sure. But they had like Saran-wrapped everything together and delivered it to me. It was just pitiful. [Laughs] But the big deal was how much of a pain in the ass Delta made it to get anything replaced.

Ship Skis: What a nightmare. What an absolute nightmare.

TJ: It really was. So have you played Bandon Dunes?

Ship Skis: I have not, unfortunately. It’s definitely one that’s on the bucket list. I’ve played a lot of good ones on the West Coast there but I have yet to play Bandon Dunes.

TJ: That’s kind of reminding me of when I had a towel from Cyprus Point on that bag that, you know, obviously went away, and I kind of miss that.

Ship Skis: Right. That’s for sure.  Playing Cyprus s is quite an opportunity.

TJ: How about tracking? Where do you go when you need to track your skis? Do you go to the UPS site or is it on your site?

Ship Skis: Okay. Yeah, so basically our website is integrated with UPS and FedEx, so when you process a shipment you’re emailed a Ship Sticks or Ship Skis tracking number, and you’re able to track the shipment on our website. So we do all the tracking through our website. Each individual has their own individual tracking number that they can either just click that link from the email that they received from us or they can go to our website, type that in and track it that way. So there’s a couple of options as far as tracking is concerned.

And then, once the shipment is delivered, they’ll get email sent to them just confirming that, “Hey, it’s been delivered.  Here’s where you sign for it,” so and so.

TJ: Cool. And why 500? Skis and bindings are probably going to be more than a grand. I guess golf clubs are going to be more than a grand too.

Ship Skis: Yeah. I mean, you know, if you go to UPS or FedEx, they include some insurance. We wanted to separate ourselves and say, “Okay, we’ll throw in the first thousand and we’ll throw in the first 500.” It’s a little different for skis just because of that dimension to the shipments. The rates are a little different from an insurance standpoint. But we do give you the option, like it’s $3.75 for golf clubs for every 500-dollar increment.  For skis, it’s an additional five dollars for every 500 increment that you go all the way up to $3500. So if you wanted to purchase additional insurance, you’re more than welcome to do so.

TJ: Yeah. That’s pretty reasonable too, eh?

Ship Skis: Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I mean, I think that insuring with FedEx or UPS, I think they’re 7 to 10 bucks based on who you’re shipping with, so.

TJ: What if the skis don’t show up on time? Do you do anything…? I guess for heli-ski, heli-skiing it doesn’t matter, but let’s say I go to a resort and, oh, I don’t have my favorite skis.

Ship Skis: Yeah, sure. So obviously, you know, instances are going to happen and shipments are going to get delayed whether it’s adverse weather conditions or whether the shipment was sorted the wrong way. We understand that. So we have a consequential late bag policy where we pay up to 200 dollars per shipment for rentals or whatever incidentals, whatever it is that’s needed until that bag arrives.

TJ: Cool.

Ship Skis: So if that bag is late, we’ll pay up to 200 dollars, again, for rentals or any incidentals that are needed until your bag arrives.

TJ: Awesome. And my next question has to do with clubs, so I’ll probably move that up to the top because I think it’s going to get more interest than the skis.

Ship Skis: Okay.

TJ: So any idea how many golf clubs do you ship every year?

Ship Skis: Hundreds of thousands for sticks.

TJ: How about skis?

Ship Skis: To be honest with you, I don’t have an exact number. Like I said, we’re in our infancy. But I know it’s upwards of a couple of thousand shipments a month. So that included luggage as well.

TJ: Yeah, so people might ship their skis and a bag with all their ski gear in it with you guys, and then they’re on a business trip and they just go to wherever and there’s your stuff.

Ship Skis: Yeah, absolutely.

TJ: That’s cool.

Ship Skis: And that’s where luggage is starting to grow for us as well.  We’ll get individuals that are going on a ski trip with the family or whatnot, and then will say, “Hey, while you’re in Colorado I got to go up to San Francisco for a business meeting, so I’ll just have my stuff shipped.  Because it goes from the East Coast to West Coast, it’s going to take five to six business days. I’ll just ship it out so I have a fresh set of clothes and fresh luggage.”  So it’s kind of one thing after another. We’ve gotten a great draw on the ski side from the golf business and vice-versa customers.  So they complement each other very well.

TJ: One of my brothers is a hedge fund partner and he just leaves all his stuff at the Rustler at Alta. [Laughs]

And no matter what trip he’s on he’ll stop in Utah for the weekend and…kind of a specialized case.

Ship Skis: Yeah.

TJ: And what does it cost you, so 49 bucks each way, depending?

Ship Skis: Yeah, it really just depends where you’re shipping to and from. I mean, a ground shipment from a ski standpoint is going to cost anywhere from 39 dollars up to 69 dollars just again based on where you’re shipping from. Transit times are going to be anywhere from one day to five or six days, again depending on where you’re shipping to and from. But if you were to look at, let’s say, you know, our biggest shipping pattern is obviously from the East Coast out to the West Coast through Denver those areas there – for a single ski bag you’re going to be looking around  59 dollars.

TJ: Cool.  So have you started buying up other domain names like ShipBikes, ShipSailboards, ShipKiteBoard?

Ship Skis: Yeah. Yeah, we have. You know, Ship Suitcases and Ship Surfboards and all that kind of stuff, and that’s something that we’re in the process of now.  Creating a parent company where all these smaller niche companies can be under…

TJ: One umbrella, yeah. Ship Stuff.

Ship Skis: Exactly. Exactly.

TJ: I have a domain name company where you have to buy them on NameBoy.com.

Ship Skis: Okay, I’ll look at that one. You said NameBoy.com?

TJ: Yeah.

Ship Skis: Okay.

TJ: Is there anything we haven’t touched on that you would like heli-skiers and avid golfers to know about the company?

Ship Skis: No, I think it’s really just making them aware that it is out there, that it is reasonably priced, and that it is a feasible option that can eliminate a lot of hassles for the individuals, especially going on a trip and saying, “Hey, okay, I don’t have to show up at the airport two hours early to make sure I get my stuff checked in and wait in those lines.” It really comes down to being a convenience factor for these individuals that we’re saying, “Hey, for an extra 50 bucks, you’re spending three, four, five thousand dollars on your trip, why not make your travel experience enjoyable.  Leave it in our hands and let us handle it.” So, I mean, it’s really just educating the consumer and letting them know that this new concept is out there and that it’s becoming more and more popular every day.

TJ: Yeah, for a week it’s more like ten, twelve, 15,000 for a lot of these guys.

Ship Skis: Yeah. No, I can imagine.

TJ: And money’s not the big deal. The other thing that might be helpful is the guys who make very specific powder skis like DPS (read our interview) , is probably the most well-known in this community, or RAMP (HELISKI.com Interview) or whomever. I think if it were easy to get your skis to and from the heli outfit, they might sell more skis.

Ship Skis: Yeah, absolutely, and that’s definitely something that we’ve experienced, or not experienced but, I mean, have looked into as going to some of these ski manufacturers and saying, “Hey, if somebody buys a set of skis, let us throw a little coupon in there or a little blurb about Ship Skis to let them know you can ship your skis.” And it was funny we were just at a ski show up in Vermont at Mount Snow and we had a couple of rental ski companies come to us as well as  who said, “Hey, you’re going to wipe us out of business because at the end of the day it’s 40, 50 bucks to rent a pair of skis for the day when if you have your own and you’re going to be out there for three or four days, you know, at that same price to ship them there for one set of rentals, so…

TJ: Yeah…

Ship Skis: …it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

TJ: I would turn them back around and say, “If you could get the skis you really want in advance of your trip and not have to go to the rental shop, to me that’s worth 50 bucks each way.

Ship Skis: Right.

TJ: Because if you…I almost never travel with skis anymore, but if you go to a resort, then you got to go find a shop and then you got to hope that they have the skis that you want in the size that you want, and you’re going to pay a ton of money, like maybe a hundred bucks a day.

Ship Skis: Exactly.

TJ: So why not these guys in Vermont could turn it into a business for themselves and say, “Quality ski rentals where you’re going to be, shipping is included in the price,” and they could turn it into a new business that has broader reach than…

Ship Skis: That’s right. That’s right. I mean, that’s definitely one way to look at it.  And from a golf business side, you know, some of the rental club companies that are out there and said, “Hey, let us handle all the shipping of the rental clubs for individuals that are going to Hawaii and don’t want to take their clubs and that kind of stuff.”  Everybody has their own set of golf clubs at the end of the day where…

TJ: Yeah, and I just think for the most part heli-skiers will take whatever the operator has.  I have these DPS skis, two years ago I shipped them in advance, unfortunately not with you guys. Well, when I got there one of the guides was skiing on them. [Laughs] And it was okay with me, but it struck me that he’d rather have these skis than the ones in their fleet. And so it got me thinking, I bet there’s a lot more heliski clients like that.

Ship Skis: Now, let me ask you this question, being an avid heli-skier there. When you ship your skis up there, if you do, would you ship it to the hotel or resort that you’re staying at or would you ship it right to the operator?

TJ: Well, most of these places are a remote lodge in the middle of nowhere, and so I’d ship it to the lodge.

Ship Skis: Okay.

TJ: I mean, there’s a handful that you have to fly in by helicopter, but they all have an office that’s near a road where you could ship it to. And there are also some operators that are in ski towns like especially Revelstoke and Whistler where you’re staying in a hotel, not a lodge, so you just send them to the hotel.

Ship Skis: Now, Heliski.com, what is your main purpose, just rating these places or…?

TJ: Yeah, our mission really is to attract, educate, engage heli-skiers. So we try to get them on our mailing list, we blog about stuff like this and review the different areas. And when somebody decides they want to go heli-skiing, they get a hold of us and we walk them through their criteria, what’s important to them, how many people are going, how many days, what kind of experience they’re looking for, and then I’ll find out who matches that criteria and has availability and what’s the pricing and send it to them. Then we’ll talk and help narrow it down and eventually they’ll book, and they just say to the operator, “Oh, I’ve talked to TJ and he helped me pick you guys,” and then they’ll send me a commission check after they get paid.

Ship Skis: Okay. Awesome. So you’re acting as really just an expert advisor?

TJ: Yeah, just being an agent. In Europe they call them tour operators, but I  don’t do the airline reservations and that sort of jazz. I just say, “Oh, you’re looking for a group of four from New York that wants unlimited vertical in March? Then you should go to Eagle Pass Heliskiing.”

Ship Skis: Okay.

TJ: Or if they’re coming from California, “You should go to Northern Escape Heli-Skiing.

Ship Skis: That’s neat.

TJ: Yeah. Transfer of knowledge, I hope.

Ship Skis: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So now how many times a year do you go heli-skiing?

TJ: Two or three.

Ship Skis: Two or three times?

TJ: Yeah. It’s tough. You might have seen my wife walk by, so it’s hard for me to get ‘tower clearance’ to go more often than that.

Ship Skis: Okay.

TJ: But every year I turn down free trips. It’s just something I swore I would never do, turn down free heli-skiing.

Ship Skis: Now, that’s something that, you know, not being an average skier and not too familiar with heli-skiing, is that something that you’ll do on a daily basis or do you do it one day or…?

TJ: Oh yeah, you’ll do it like…like on this trip in March, I’m going to go six days in a row. I want to say it’s brutal, but that’s what my dad woud call “crying in your beer.”   I am getting to the point where I worry about which body part’s going to give out, you know, my knees, my back, whatever. But I pretty much work out all year long just so I’ll be ready. You don’t want to be the guy who’s holding back your group ever. [Laughs]

Ship Skis: Exactly. Exactly. Now, how many people will fit in a helicopter when you do that?

TJ: It depends on the chopper. A lot of them hold four guests and a guide. There are some that hold five, some that hold six. A lot of operators will take them big choppers that hold 10 or 11 and they’ll serve multiple groups with that. So on the one extreme, four groups of 10 people sharing a helicopter, on the other extreme, you can have your own four-person helicopter. So that’s kind of the range. CMH (Canadian Mountain Holidays) is the market share leader, and they focus almost exclusively on these big choppers and big lodges with 44 guests at a time, because it’s just more cost-effective that way, right?

Ship Skis: Yeah, sure.

TJ: To have 11 people riding in each lift. But you can pay a little bit more and have a little bit more flexibility if you go with a smaller chopper.

Ship Skis: That’s great.

TJ: I appreciate your time, Jeffrey, and I appreciate you sending my skis and stuff.

Ship Skis: No, I appreciate the opportunity and, you know, anytime you need to ship your skis or clubs for that matter, give us a call. We’re happy to be here for you.

TJ: Oh, great.  Nice to meet you.

Ship Skis: Alright, nice meeting you. Have a good one.

TJ: Alright, cheers.

ZEAL Optics HD Camera Goggles vs. GoPro – HELISKI.com Heli-Ski Gear Interview

Zeal Optics Interview with HELISKI.com

HELISKIING GOGGLES

 

Goggles with built-in camera – brilliant!  ZEAL Optics HD Camera Goggles are one of the coolest things any gear manufacturer has ever sent me.  It’s GoPro without the camera on your head.  HELISKI.com talked with Mike Lewis of Zeal. The directions include “IMPORTANT: ALWAYS HAVE FUN.”   So, have fun!

HELI SKI HD CAMERA GOGGLETJ:       So who had the idea of putting the camera in the goggles?

ZEAL: We started making these a few years ago, and are working with a proprietary electronics supplier.  Fast forward to today, and we’re actually launching the HD2, the new version of this for next season.  It’s drastically slimmed down and has WiFi capability so you can share directly to your social channels.

TJ:       Oh man, you mean the one you sent me is old school?

ZEAL: …next year. We’ll get you sorted out!

TJ:       Cool. I think it’s awesome. I’ll tell you, I’ve always felt like the GoPro was such a funky form factor.  You know, it’s just totally awkward. Guys put them on top of their helmet and they’re always hitting them on the top of the chopper or they’re poking the guy in the butt who’s in front of them getting in the chopper with it. It’s hitting trees and stuff. So, in fact, I asked the GoPro guys, “How come we don’t have a more sleek, you know, a better form factor?” And I suppose the answer is they’ve got a super-wide-angle lens?

ZEAL: We both capture about 170 degrees.  Check out our promo video

ZEAL 2013 HD Camera Goggle Footage from ZEAL Optics

TJ:       It’s incredible. You know, I started a company in 1995, iMoveInc.com, which does panorama video.  You can ‘walk-through’ a space in 3D.  It used a fisheye lens that captures 220 degrees.  Two images are seamed together for an entire spherical view…..but I digress.

How long is the battery life?

ZEAL: Currently, it’s about three hours of run time and, you know, that’s the size of the SD card that’s in there as well. If you’re turning it off, you can run it for an entire day around it.

TJ:       If you’re skiing for three hours in a day, that’s a pretty good day.

ZEAL: Without a doubt! Turn it off at lunch breaks, hot toddies, you know…

TJ:       But heli-skiing, even when your ride up is short, you know…

ZEAL: The ride up is cool footage too!

TJ:       Yeah, no kidding!  And, you know, heli-skiing, it’s always a bonus to get to sit up front in the chopper.…like on the ride home you could just say, “Oh, I got my camera. Let me sit up there.”

TJ:       Tell me about your partnership with Kingfisher Heliskiing.

ZEAL: We’re really excited to be working with those guys this year.  Guests can demo the goggles,y film their exploits and madness, and then send then Kingfisher sends the SD cards to us.   Zeal makes a custom edit of the day, so similar to like when you go skydiving and you get that video coverage.

We’ve also outfitted all the guides with HD Cameras so guests can get a video of themselves skiing!

TJ:       No kidding. Has anybody from Zeal been up there yet?

ZEAL: We haven’t yet. The snow’s just starting to get good. We’re in the midst of trade show season, and so waiting to get through that and then hoping to make the trip up there, shoot some material for next year’s catalog, commercials, ads and stuff around that.

TJ:       So what are the big advantages compared to schlepping a GoPro?

ZEAL: First and foremost is the fact that you don’t have to worry about a mount-you always have one if you’re bringing your face with you…. With the GoPro, the mounts they use have a tiny piece of foam that is used to dampen the camera, which is basically your stabilizer. With the camera goggle, all the foam on your face becomes a stabilizer so you get a much stiller, the calmer image around it.

TJ:       Yeah. Also, you think about the moment arm of something on top of your head, a little bit of movement in your face moves that camera a whole bunch further.

ZEAL: Exactly, that pendulum effect.  In fact with the HD, that gets fully negated. And we’re talking about true point of view, it’s truly seeing what you’re seeing.

TJ:       The pendulum effect, eh?

ZEAL: Exactly. And you know exactly when and what you’re recording—you can see it right in your in-goggle viewfinder.

TJ:       Yeah.  Check out this video of snowboarding on Thompson Pass near Valdez Alaska with Alaska Snowboard Guides

ZEAL: And from a cost standpoint, we come in at the same price as the Hero 3 Black Edition

TJ:       And you get a pair of goggles!

ZEAL: Yeah, you get a top-of-the-line pair of goggles with it, you get an 8gb SD card with it, and you’re ready to go out of the box.

TJ:       These are nice goggles, too.   Your President, John Sanchez, has worked for all kinds of interesting eyewear companies – Maui Jim Sunglasses, Ray-Ban, Bolle, Serengeti, Revo, Vogue, DKNY, Suncloud, Cebe, H2Optix, Bushnell.

ZEAL: He’s been in the industry since he was a very young kid growing up in San Antonio, Texas.  He started out with Ray-Ban on the factory floor — packing boxes, shipping, and worked his way up from there. He’s been with a number of companies along the way and has made some amazing contacts. And that’s how we’ve been able to partner with groups with these amazing technologies.

TJ:       And who else has he worked for? I forget now. His resume is pretty impressive.

ZEAL: Bolle, Serengeti, Suncloud, Ray-Ban, Maui Jim.

TJ:       Yeah. So, some of the lesser known brands, than Zeal.

ZEAL: Yeah. I hadn’t heard of most of them.

TJ:       How about distribution? Where do people get Zeal HD?

ZEAL: So any retailer that carries our goggles – you can go to Zeal Optics and find them through our retail locator. If there’s not one that’s convenient in your area, ask your favorite retailer why they don’t carry us, or you can purchase them on zealoptics.com.

TJ:       I found out you can also pretend to be a blogger and get a free pair…..

ZEAL: [Laughs] Well, you’ve got an elaborate disguise going, so I figured it’s worth it.

TJ:       Can you replace the lenses? Do they come in more than one color?

ZEAL: You can.  We have four different options of lenses and these are all available in zealoptics.com or at our retail partners.

heliskiing goggles with camera

TJ:       When did the company start?

ZEAL: We were founded actually in Moab in 1997 by a couple and they moved to Boulder a couple of years later. Maui Jim purchased us about two-and-a-half years ago, and since that time it’s been a full reset from product to branding to marketing and investing.

So it started off just being regular eyewear, just shades, and goggles?

ZEAL: Yep, and then we really started pushing the envelope from a technology standpoint, starting with the first GPS goggle called the Transcend, integrating RECON GPS technology.

TJ:       Oh yeah.

ZEAL: Since we forged the wearable technology category in goggles, we’ve seen Smith and Oakley follow suit since.

TJ:       Yeah, I saw Smith’s.

TJ:       I’m surrounded by a variety of eyewear because I have prescription inserts for my goggles. Do you have a solution for that?

ZEAL: So in order to get the in-goggle viewfinder in there, that capacity has been enlarged.  So there is a lot of space. I wear prescription glasses as well and I’ve used them in there.

TJ:       You just put the goggles over your glasses?

ZEAL: Exactly.  There’s plenty of volume in there for them. We’re also releasing a butterfly Rx insert for next season that will fit any prescription and any google frame!

TJ: So there’s a dude in Boulder who you may want to hook up with. His company is Aspen Eyewear.   He’s an optician.

ZEAL: Yeah, I’ve seen them.

heliski goggle inserts

Prescription Inserts for Any Goggles from Aspen Eyewear in Boulder

TJ: The guy’s name is Heinz, like the ketchup.  He can get these little inserts, that work really well.

ZEAL: They don’t fog?

TJ: They do not fog really too much, and if they do you can yank them out, wipe them up, put them back in again. Real easy.

ZEAL: Slick, so it works on any frame, huh?

TJ: And it’s like 125 bucks. They’ll mail them to you. It’s phenomenal.

TJ: I also have a fancy pair of Smith’s, with the fan.  They make a little deal that attaches to the frame.  But it only attaches on one spot there.  Very tenuous. And so you wouldn’t dare try to pull it out during a helicopter ride or wipe it off because you probably wouldn’t get it clicked back in there.

TJ: It’s just amazing, and I’ve been using the Aspen Eyewear inserts for years. And he is a friend of a friend.   A buddy of mine who grew up in Boulder turned me onto him. You know, a grade school friend. Heinz. And you could reference Steve Weaver. That’s the guy he knows. He may not remember me.

ZEAL: Okay. Well, good.

 

TJ:       I have a fancy pair of Smith’s.  They make a little deal that attaches to the frame.  But it only attaches on one spot there.  Very tenuous. And so you wouldn’t dare try to pull it out during a helicopter ride or wipe it off because you probably wouldn’t get it clicked back in there.

TJ:       Do the HD Goggles fit over helmets? Because they’re kind of bigger and I’ve…so I’ve whipped out my helmet and they fit just fine.

ZEAL: Yeah, without a doubt. The strap is ample for that, they even work great on moto and snowmobile helmets.

TJ:       And I was going to ask you about vibration dampening. Is there any built into the software of the camera to do dampening or is it just mechanical?

ZEAL: There isn’t. Primarily we rely on the google foram for dampening.  I found that it’s much more still than any other point-of-view camera I’ve reviewed. And I did a number of camera tests and this was a big part of the reason that I joined the company after seeing the possibilities around this thing.

TJ:       Oh, it seemed, you know, it was 70 degrees when I was walking my dog, and it got kind of warm. So I’m wondering, is that an undocumented feature …. it’s actually a face warmer?

ZEAL: No.

TJ:       [Laughs] Well, you know, it would fog less if it stayed warm, right?

ZEAL: Right. You know, I haven’t really thought about that…

TJ:       Yeah. In software, we always said, “if you can’t fix it, feature it.”

ZEAL: Right, exactly.  I will have to put that in the catalog….

TJ:       The other thing I’m really into is I have been using Smith’s with a fan built in, because I got the multi-lenses in there. Maybe that’s why mine doesn’t fog.  You might be able to take the exhaust, you know, put in a tiny cooling fan and make the exhaust go into the goggles, and that way you have a clearing function.

ZEAL: Yeah!

TJ:       Yeah. You know, I used to build tiny little computers (Poqet, now Fujitsu) and the heat was always a big challenge.

ZEAL: Right. Yeah, it definitely is.

TJ:       What’s the best software to edit with? Because I don’t do a lot of videos. You know, once I get it on—I’ve got a Mac—what should I use?

ZEAL: iMovie is going to be the simplest and your Mac comes with that.

TJ:       I’ve kind of outsmarted myself with mine. I set it so that the display goes off after I take 10 seconds…

ZEAL: Yup.

TJ:       …but now I can’t navigate around before the screen goes blank. What button should I push to make the screen come back on again?

ZEAL: It should be the bottom one. If you click on that twice and then you run through the menu on there, there is a Support Guide for this google camera on our site.

TJ:       Okay, I’ll check it out.

ZEAL: That’ll run you through the menu and you’ll know what to do.

TJ:       Oh, and I was reading the directions again and laughing. The last bullet point says in capital letters, “IMPORTANT: ALWAYS HAVE FUN.” [Laughs]

ZEAL: [Laughs] Obviously. That’s our mantra here.

TJ:       That just kills me.

ZEAL: End of the day, we’re all about enhancing outdoor experiences. And to truly be a quality piece of technology, you need to forget you have it on. You need to be able to get out there and have a great time with it, seamlessly capture and augment the adventure and be able to re-live those memories with friends, make them jealous!

ZEAL: Exactly. It’s interesting; a lot of people are using these for more than just a toy really. It’s a tool for snow professionals.

TJ:       Hey, I videoed walking my dog the other day. It’s riveting.

ZEAL: Exactly. [Laughs] it’s pretty amazing, huh?

TJ:       And you know, I’ve gotten a million hits so far.

ZEAL: No way.

TJ:       [Laughs] Yeah, no way.

ZEAL: [Laughs]

dog walk with bird encounter – Computer from Tom Jackson

TJ:       How about lawyers? Because it seems like…

ZEAL: You know, that’s not a bad idea.

TJ:       Ambulance chasers. You know, I did…working on another company that does vehicle tracking and one of the trends there is to have these cameras in trucks that essentially record everything all the time. Can’t imagine a truck driver wearing goggles but there’s a pony in there somewhere, I’m sure.

ZEAL: And cops putting them in their cars and wearing cameras now.

TJ:       Wow.  That’s cool, and I would think for avalanche control it would also be really cool to have a video record of any slides that the guys see. Or video the cutting a block out for testing.

ZEAL: You know, a lot of ski patrollers are doing things similar for alterations, or when people are injured, to make sure that they’re following protocol, and yeah, historically we’d only put them in goggles.

TJ:       Wow.

ZEAL: But the technology has so many other applications. We’re working on a few other projects, like football helmets.

ZEAL: How cool would that be to be switching from the quarterback’s point of view to the wide receiver’s?

TJ:       Oh. And how about the referee hitting playback?

ZEAL: Right.

TJ:       And saying, “Oh, his foot was out.”

ZEAL: Right, it’s a good point.

TJ:       Right. No charge for that idea.

ZEAL: Thanks. [Laughs]

ZEAL: So how did you get this idea to launch this company, HELISKI.com?

TJ:       You know, I was sitting in a lodge in the middle of nowhere, that was really a glorified gas station, and we had a down day and I just said to the woman across from me, “Wouldn’t it be nice if you could talk to somebody who’d been to these places before you spend a thousand, 1500 bucks a day?”

ZEAL: Yeah.

TJ:       And so from there I got the idea, “Sure, let’s review the different heli-skiing outfits and give people a clue.” So my first site was called HeliSkiing Review and it’s still around, and the idea is actually users going on and sharing their experiences.

Now when people want to go heli-skiing, they get a hold of me and we talk through how many days they want to go, and how much time or money they can spend, how many people, what’s important to them and the trip, when can they go, etc.  And then I help them narrow down the choices and hook them up with the places that I think are best.

ZEAL: That’s not a bad gig.

TJ:       Yeah, it’s really fun, and I get to go a couple of times a year.  Yeah, so I try to get to two or three places and my goal was to hit all of them, if my knees, hold up. I’m trying to get 40 different places under my belt.

ZEAL: Awesome.

TJ:       Yeah. Yeah, it’s pretty sweet. Life’s hard.

ZEAL: Yeah.

TJ:       Yeah, my buddies are always on me because I don’t really ride lifts anymore, but I’m a lot older than you, so…

ZEAL: Right…

TJ:       Is there anything we didn’t touch on that you want to add?

ZEAL: I’m really excited about that partnership with Kingfisher Heliskiing. I think that it has the opportunity to bring something to a heli-ski operation and to the experience for customers that they never had before. It’s a way to remember what occurred, what went down there, you know, we’ve all become so used to this instant gratification and sharing, oversharing, but you know, truly sharing an experience with your loved ones, with your friends in a way that you would never before have been able to capture unless you had a production team working with you, and I think that adds so much value to what those guys are doing up there and I hope to see that expand throughout the industry.

TJ:       That’s amazing. Well, I’m happy to hook you up with the other operators if you want to…need anybody, just let me know.

ZEAL: You know, we’re kind of working out the bugs with Kingfisher Heliskiing right now.  And we’re working with a cat operation here in Colorado now as well.

TJ:       Which one?

ZEAL: It’s called Powder Addiction

TJ:       Because I know the guys who own Steamboat Powdercats. They’re good guys.

ZEAL: I hear that’s a cool operation

TJ:       Yeah. It’s cool. I’ve been heli-skiing with them a couple of times.

ZEAL: Oh, sick. And definitely, you know, once we get that fine-tuned in the coming years, I think it’s something that could be a great addition to any heliski operation.

TJ:       So you guys are actually going to edit the video for Kingfisher guests, and then give it to them as a going-away gift?

ZEAL: Exactly. So we’ll send it out about five days afterward to all of the clients, and groups will get the same edit. So say you and I go together, you know, there’ll be a feature around us. We’ll have some canned B roll from Kingfisher, and then it’s everything that we get provided from their guide’s point of view, as well as those guys, they’ll get to see themselves skiing, as well as our own point of view.

TJ:       I know a heli-skiing operator who used to do that. You know, it’s quite a bit of work, but the same idea. There’s some canned footage and they mix it in with your own footage, but from your POV that’s awesome.

ZEAL: Yeah, and we’ve got a guy that does this for us and has a quick turnaround time and is very good.

TJ:       Yeah. And, you know, it’s one of those things where I’ve always felt like, “God, if other people could only see how cool this is,” and now it’s really an opportunity to show them.

ZEAL: Right. That’s a big part of Kingfisher excitement around it as well, is just how much more they can permeate the market and be telling their stories from other people’s point of view versus them just talking about how good it is.

TJ:       I want to switch heli-ski gears and ask you about another market. What about porn?

ZEAL: You know, definitely have thought of it. If they pick this up, then we’re gold.  Might need some different mounts, but…

TJ:       Well, you know, GoPro makes a little thing that attaches to a ski pole or shovel handle…… I’m sure you can adapt that.

ZEAL: Right. [Laughs] We’ll let them have that one.

TJ:       Anything else?

ZEAL: You know, something we’re using in social media around this is #truepointofview. We feel that having the ultimate experience from the skier, writer or whatever, you’re doing is actually “true point of view.”

We’ve got another site called ZealHD.com.  It’s kind of a community and sharing site for people that have these goggles. You can put them up there, with categories, and we run contests throughout the season on there as well. So, fun way to get on there and build this community.

TJ:       Yeah, and maybe have a section for heli-skiing and we can point to that.

ZEAL: I love it. You know, there’s one called Powder Day, so let’s expand that.

TJ:       Yes!  Alright, it’s been fun, Mike. Thanks a lot for your time.

ZEAL: Yeah, for sure. Take care, TJ

TJ:       Alright, cheers.

HELISKI.com Gear Interview DPS Skis (deep powder skis?)

DPS Skis – The Best Powder Skis for Heli Skiing?

What are the best powder skis?

Gear for heliskiers interviews continues with another one of the best powder ski pioneer – DPS Skis. We spoke with Erme Catino and Mike “The Ski Finder” Cannon about what makes them great.

DPS skis, DPS heli skiing skis

1. I have been heli skiing on the DPS Lotus 120 Pure Carbon + Nano, and they CRUSH it!  But the most amazing thing is that everywhere I go, the heiski GUIDES want to ski them. How did you develop such a strong reputation among the Gods of heli skiing?

Nice to hear we’re in good standing with the gods—we want to make sure as we continue to grow that the sweet sirens songs never tempt us—it’s important we stay true to our core audience and our roots. I think our good standing with so many talented, life-dedicated skiers worldwide comes from resonating with DPS’ core vision: to make perfect skis worthy of those who live and breathe the sport. Our roots are ingrained in big-mountain riding. Our founder Stephan Drake has spent his life traveling the globe chasing powder in some of the most storied locations. His obsession from the start was to solve a pain point of providing the most advanced ski shaping coupled with the very best materials available. We’ve never been complacent and never are. The ski industry is brutally competitive, and DPS is thriving for one reason: we’re obsessed with building the best skis possible for those who demand the best. We pioneered the use of aerospace carbon fiber and a sandwich construction to build skis that are 30 percent lighter than conventional skis while being 30 percent torsionally stiffer, stronger, and more powerful. The focus is on the product and the search for deep snow, and the best skiers have sought us out. We are psyched when we see guides on our skis.

One more point regarding the guiding community, particularly in Alaska and Canada. Last year, we lost our good friend, Rob Liberman, in an avalanche while guiding in Haines, AK. Rob was a passionate human, a damn good heli-guide, and a ripping skier. I think a ton of guides trusted Rob’s ski choices because of his abilities and enthusiasm. He’s part of our legacy, story, and family. [Yes, Rob was a great guy and is missed]

DPS skis heliski Alaska, best powder skis

2. The “DPS Ski Finder” is unique.  Tell us how you match DPS skis and skiers.

DPS has been fitting skiers over the “interwebs” since 2005. We’re also now in over 130 of the finest brick and mortar shops worldwide, but a large share of our sales are direct through dpsskis.com. Customers respond well to the personalized attention they get from us and have peace in knowing that they are being ‘fit’ by ripping skiers. The process works as follows: A customer fills out our ski finder which is written to get a feel for the skier’s ability, preferences, background, skis liked/disliked, etc.

It is sent to Mike Cannon, DPS’ direct sales manager who oversees a small in-house team. Mike has fitted countless skiers over the Internet for over nine years. He’s typically the point of contact, and the emails and speaks with customers constantly. In addition to creating happy customers, he develops a great rapport with them. These relationships are important to us on a number of levels, it is the foundation of the ski finder—to build skis for people with a passion, and develop a family around the brand.

3. What are the best powder skis by DPS for heli skiing?

For powder surfing nothing compares to the Lotus 138, it is the most evolved and tested powder ski on earth… The Spoon debuting this winter will also join the Lotus 138 in powder surfing nirvana. Additionally, and not be forgotten is the Lotus 120, the classic, charging 120mm powder pintail.

best powder skis, DPS skis, Lotus 138 DPS heliskis

4. Compare and contrast the Lotus 120 and 138 DPS Skis.

Both the Lotus 120 and Lotus 138 surf powder phenomenally well. Below are two descriptions for each individual ski to help decipher the difference between them.

  • The Lotus 120 is the original and often imitated 120mm class powder pintail. If you are looking for a directional charger, and are not a fan of tail rocker, there is simply no comparison. The Lotus 120’s shaping is optimized for deep snow; a 600mm tapered and rockered shovel gives the Lotus 120 early planing ability, while the flex pattern and geometry gives skiers unequaled balance and ball-of-the-foot driven powder performance. [I’m selling a pair of these in 190cm, email if interested]

DPS skis, Lotus 120 heliskis DPS

  • The Lotus 138 was the first rockered ski with sidecut ever built. The iconic shape is a freak of nature that combines our carbon construction’s unmatched reactive power and precision with featherweight lightness. Riding the Lotus 138 in deep, or even soft snow is like an entirely new sport.

Overall, the Lotus 138 has a looser feel than the Lotus 120. The 138 slarves and slides down the fall-line, where the 120 is traditionally directional in its turn shape.

5. So how does the Spoon compare?

The idea of the spoon is a ski that nestles the perfect balance between ‘slide’ and ‘rail’. In other words, the skier should be able to feather the ski into long, planing fall line slides; then, at will, have the ability to stand on the tail and experience a tight driving turn across the fall line. To balance both qualities, we discovered that the ski needs to feel very loose in the shovel, semi-loose in the midbody, and have a hard railing turn feel in the tail. This is crucial and will be available on the production Spoon model, debuting Winter 2012.

DPS is giving away a pair.  Enter by Liking DPS on Facebook]

6. My 120’s are 190cm… Why do you ski DPS’s so long when everyone else is on blades?

We offer skis for all ability levels, however, a lot of chargers wanted longer models – The Lotus 120 & Lotus 138 have 200cm and 202cm available lengths respectively. With rocker, skis may be slightly longer, but it is important to pay attention to the running length and what type of ski you are looking for.

7. Your graphics are very simple. Going for retro?

Haha, not going for retro. Our skis are intentionally simple by design and are centered on the quiet mystery encountered during a slide across deep snow. When you ski deep powder, your mind is clear, and the skis are a direct reflection of that state of mind. For our Dreamtime Preorder (July 19 – Aug 1) — we offer special edition graphics on select models for folks wanting something a bit more.

dps skis, DPS Wailer skis

8. Explain your two different constructions – Pure: Carbon+Nano and Hybrid: Fiberglass+Carbon+Bamboo?

DPS is driven to improve technology and performance through its construction. In every other sport or field outside of skiing, price stratification exists around the materials and performance of the product.

For example, Porsche offers an $80k 911 and a $160k 911 Turbo. The 911 is so fast it will make your jaw drop, but The Turbo is twice as fast.

DPS offers two performance packages. Each package is offered at a price that reflects the cost of their components. Both consist of the same award-winning shaping, engineering, and design, but consist of different materials and build process.

The DPS HYBRID compares favorably to any ski on the market.

The PURE boosts this level of sophistication and power and is an unparalleled skiing experience.

9. Why did you decide to sell DPS skis directly to customers?

DPS was founded as a design based/grassroots company to build the perfect ski. We see the ski, skier, and ski builder as an intimately connected triangle, and by selling direct we can keep that tight-knit relationship. DPS customers are among the best skiers in the world and are technically savvy folks with an obsession for trick skis.

10. Now you have retail shops, too, eh?

Yes, we do. The brand launched in 2005 via the Internet direct sales model. In 2008 we expanded to include a conventional retail model. Currently, DPS skis are sold in approximately 130 of the best shops worldwide in the US, Canada, Europe, Oceania, and Japan.

heliskiing dps skis logo, heli-ski canada

11. Do you consider DPS to be a boutique ski manufacturer?

We don’t consider ourselves to be a boutique ski manufacturer. Rather we like to think of ourselves as a leader in innovative shaping and design. Our roots are in the high-performance powder skiing culture, and we strive to build skis that are lighter, stronger, and more powerful than conventionally built skis. The boutique is one of those labels that is too limiting, especially for our vision.

12. So DPS stands for Deep Powder Skis, right?

No, actually DPS stands for Drake PowderworkS.  [May be time for a change, I like Deep Powder Skis better……]

13. What else would you like to tell heli-skiers about DPS Skis?

We hope that you can try a pair of DPS skis on your next trip – we’re confident that you will find them to be the highest performing boards you’ve ever ridden.

Thanks! And thanks for the great days on my Lotus 120’s!

tj

Gear Interview: Trew GEAR Heliskiing Apparel is Technylish

TREW GEAR SKI APPAREL

Continuing our Heliski Gear Interview Series with a new company from my old stomping ground – Hood River, Oregon in the Columbia River Gorge. Tripp Frey, Co-Founder/CEO of TREW GEAR and I skyped about their innovative technylish apparel. Enjoy.

 

Tom (TJ): So what’s the best thing going for heli-skiers out of your TRUE GEAR line, the Cosmic?

 

TREW Heliskiiing Jacket - COSMICTREW Heli-skiing jacket back

 

 

Tripp: You know, it just depends. It’s more like a personal preference thing. Yeah, I mean the bibs are awesome.

Tom: Yeah? I love the name, TREWTH Ski Bibs, from Trew GEAR.

 

 

 

heliskiing bibs trewthTREWTH heliski bibsF13_TREWTH_GRY_FRONT F13_TREWTH_CAMO_FRONT F13_TREWTH_BRWN_FRONT

 

 

Tripp: You know, that was kind of our flagship product and that’s what I would be like, the bibs are where you want to be, because if you’re going to take a digger you’re going to have protection from all the snow and it’s not going to be down your pants. And it’s a super-fabric, which is really great for getting it out in the heli, and scuff guards against your skis and all that kind of stuff.

 

 

Tom: Which Trew GEAR jacket is best for heliskiing?

Tripp: On the jacket side, it’s kind of more personal preference, you know. The Cosmic [above] is kind of sleek and simple, whereas the Bellows [bellow] has like a lot of storage. So if you’re trying to bring a lot of stuff with you, then maybe the Bellows is your go-to…

 

 

heli-ski jackethelicopter skiing jacketheli skiing jacketheli ski jacket

 

heliskiing trew heli-skiing canada jacket heliskiing canada jacket heliski bc canada jacket

 

 

Tom: I think it might be because sitting here my only complaint about this one is that I don’t really have a good goggle pocket. There’s not someplace I can get in and out of it.

Tripp: Yeah.

Tom: And in the helicopter, you get about a minute and a half from when you get in and get your seatbelt on to change from goggles to glasses or vice-versa or wipe off your goggles and that kind of stuff. So it’s got to be close, it’s got to be easy, and really almost all the shells don’t have a big enough pocket.

Tripp: You’re looking for storage, the Bellows is your one, and if you’re looking for kind of like the really progressive jacket that’s going to combine the…you know, it’s really going to embody technylish, it’s the Pow Funk. It’s kind of the most stylish, youthful that’s, you know, progressive colors. Same material. You know, it’s all the same material.

 

bc heliski jacket F13_POWFUNK_CP_FRONT F13_POWFUNK_BR_FRONT

 

Tom: Alright. So how do you distribute Trew GEAR?  How do people get Trew gear heliskiing?

Tripp: Good question. We have about 50 dealers around North America, and so you can visit or try to find a local retailer, and of course you can always find us on our website , trewgear.com. We sell gear off our website. We have online partners like backcountry.com, where you can also get our product.

 

Tom: You were talking about how you got into this business.

Tripp: Yeah, sure. Um, well, I moved to Hood River (OR) to work for another small little company that maybe you’re familiar with called Shred Alert.

Tom: Oh, sure, I know Heather.

Tripp: And I got to know Heather, who owned it, through a friend. And so I was just finishing grad school and came out here to work for her. Kind of had like an entrepreneurial edge, wanted to work for a small company and try to grow or do something on my own. And so I came here, worked for her—I didn’t know anyone—and I’ve just always been a passionate outdoors person, skier particularly.

But I only worked there for about six months, and then the entrepreneurial interest was too strong and so strong I called up two really good friends who were twin brothers, John and Chris Pew. They moved out here. And we kind of had this vision for technical apparel that could be done a little bit differently, and that was kind of our only kind of guiding light. And then we just felt like, “Let’s use the top-of-the-line materials, but let’s design it from a little bit of a different perspective. Let’s focus on durability. Let’s focus on utility in terms of storage and having a lot of storage options. Let’s focus on colors and making the jackets aesthetically beautiful.” And so, just kind of rethinking…although less design for pure alpinism and a little bit more design for just skiing and snowboarding.

Tom: Yeah, yeah.

Tripp: So, it might weigh a few ounces more, “Okay, fine, maybe you’re not taking on Everest. Okay.”

Tripp: But for your everyday use of inbound, side-country and hut trips, heli-skiing – it’s going to be more than sufficient. It’s going to be ideal, kind of the ‘quiver killer.’

Tom: Yeah, I like that. And it’s kind of a lower price point than, I don’t know, Arc’Teryx or some super-premium. Is that part of the philosophy or you’re right on par, do you think?

Tripp: Well, I mean I think our goal is to offer similar quality and construction techniques and fabrics. We don’t use Gore, and that’s pretty much the driver of the really high price points, is just that we don’t use Gore. We don’t necessarily believe that Gore is any better than anything else. I mean, I think from a performance standpoint, obviously they have done a remarkable job of marketing their brand and people recognize it and have recognition from both manufacturing and the end consumer.

Tom: That’s funny. It’s like Windows is to computers for an analogy – it’s that you pay a big premium for an OS that’s not great. So the price of the box is way more than it should be.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think Gore-Tex is a good product too, but I actually think the best analogy is Intel. Intel has…you know, Gore-Tex, you don’t know what it looks like. It’s like a processor – you have no idea what it looks like, but when you walk into Best Buy you’re like, “Oh, I have an Intel processor. Must be the best.” But you have no idea. You never see it. You don’t…you can’t… You just…it’s a component that no one sees and understands and they market it really well.

Tom: I agree with you, and Intel is my alma mater.

Tripp: Alright.

Tom: Yeah. There are a bunch of guys out there in the Gorge that are ex-Intel.

Tripp: Right, right.

Tom: Well, that’s interesting. I never thought about Gore driving up the price. It’s kind of like, in the world of audio…I can think of another analogy, but now let’s move on. It sounds like you’re pretty busy and I want to keep moving.

Tripp: Oh, no worries.

 

Tom: But I think Mt. Hood is a great place to test and refine clothing. And just a quick aside, I remember on a snowboard one day standing on the edge of a little precipice, and the wind was blowing so hard it blew me backwards up the hill.

Tripp: No joke. On those winter storms, it’s like 70 MPH winds or more.

Tom: Yeah, and biting cold, a little bit heavier snow than some places, and it’s look like a moonscape. I was looking at one of your team riders and she’s standing up on what…I guess it’s Mt. Baker, but it looks like Hood, everything just covered in ice. It’s a gnarly environment, so I’m sure it’s a great place to design and test clothes.

Tripp: Yeah, it is. We get to experience a variety of weather conditions relatively close to home, everything from rain to heavy snow, and you get up high you get tons of wind. And over here we get a couple of really dry storms. We get it all, and now that we’re kind of expanding our product line. Our heritage is in kind of the technical shells. But our product line has expanded and now we have like this, which is like a synthetic insulated garment, which is a really cool take. It’s a fully reversible and really technical piece, but done a bit differently. And you know, performance – soft shell, so it has new pieces that we’ve kind of been working on that we debuted this year. So yeah, it’s a great place to kind of test all of these things out.

 

soft shell heliski jacket

Cool Soft Shell – Wyeast

 

Tom: Cool, yeah. I got a Trew GEAR soft shells [WYEAST, above, which I love], but the hard shell for heli-skiing is the sweet spot for me.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

 

Tom: And so do you have a powder clause? Like how much snow do you have to get on Hood before you’re allowed to take the morning off and go make turns?

Tripp: Well, we’re still pretty small little company and there’s the three of us who founded it with one other guy, and we don’t really have a policy other than going on and using gear is of value. So, you know, every day is probably not good, but when it’s good get up there and for sure.

Tom: I hear you. That’s like me with heli-skiing – I got to, I don’t have a choice. It’s my job.

Tripp: Yeah, it’s a rough life.

Tom: And so I guess I didn’t know the Shred Alert connection in the era. Shred Alert spinoff – that sort of cracks me up.

Your design philosophy, you mentioned you do it differently, and that’s differently as in the attributes you mentioned, which were the technical yet maybe a little bit more stylish?

Tripp: You know, we have this word that we use, “Technylish,” which is technical and stylish.

Tom: I love it.

Tripp: It’s kind of one of our approaches, technylish. Again, I mean, I think our lack of a background in technical garments has pros and cons, but when we sit down and think about a garment we don’t have the pedigree that someone who worked or has training in apparel construction who went to school for it and has worked at a big company, so we kind of just think more about what does our customer want and what do we want. And someone who had years of training might say, “Well, we can’t do that because we can’t have this price point and we can’t…you know, this is going to use too much fabric here and that doesn’t make any sense…”

It’s just when you’re free of the paradigms of someone who has a background in working in a big company with a lot of structure, we think it allows your outfit to kind of be a little bit more creative.

Tom: I think you’re exactly right. I remember at Intel when they went from the 486 to the Pentium they took a completely new team. So they didn’t use anybody who had designed in the 486 era because they wanted to avoid people saying, “Oh, you can’t do that. You can’t do it this way,” or, “That won’t work,” you know?

They wanted a fresh start, which to me, for a company that big literally betting the company on that, is mind-blowing, but I like the approach.

Tripp: Of course there are downsides and that’s that unforseen consequences of doing certain things and stuff not always working out how you envisioned it, but I think for the most part it’s a positive more than a negative.

 

Tom: Cool. And do you take a look at competitors? Like you’ve got Columbia sort of a neighbor here, but Columbia Acr’Teryx, North Face, the usual suspects. Do you get one of each of their jackets like an auto manufacturer does and kind of deconstruct it or see what they’ve done or are you literally starting with a blank slate?

Tripp: Um, no. We definitely obviously keep our pulse on the competitive landscape. We do a couple of other things. One, we look at like…we try to look at different information in terms of what product categories are selling well, which would be like this. So this is like the synthetic…like the Patagonia, Nano is probably their bestselling piece.

They don’t…no one really sells that many technical shells. So this is where you got to get your volume up and you got to start doing stuff. So we look at kind of like high-level, kind of what categories are doing well, but then within a category and where we’re looking at a particular piece, yeah, we definitely like deconstruct and buy other stuff. We’d borrow other people’s gear and take a look at it, deconstruct it. And try to learn about like what people are doing and think that we can do better.

And we’re like, “Well, what if we did that?” “Yeah, for sure.” “What if we did that?” We put our little spin on it.

Tom: So is there kind of a larger market? I’m sure you look at the market in terms of volume. I’m guessing that there’s a wannabe segment of people who want to look like they’re technical, but when they go to the mall in their four-wheel drive that they never take to the mountains… So is that a big kind of sweet-spot target or is that not part of your thinking?

Tripp: No, it is. I mean, we design our products for our core customer, and hopefully by default there are people who see that and they’re like, “Ooh, I want to be that person,” and they wear our new jacket around town.

Tom: Yeah. That’s a cool logo by the way.

Tripp: Yeah, thanks. I don’t know how anyone does…or why anyone else didn’t trademark it, but they hadn’t, so.

Tom: I love the name too, actually. You know, at this point, I have a domain name company [nameboy.com] and I know how hard it is to get a domain, let alone a trademarkable, recognizable term, so it’s cool.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah, , and…I’m the T-R in Trew, and then the two guys that I work with, their last name is Pew, P-E-W, so we’re kind of Tripp and Pew put together.

Tom: Wow. Because these days I’m seeing so many brands that are just kind of a different spelling on a recognizable term, you know, for brandability, trademarkability. So you got both going. That’s cool.

Tripp: Yeah, so.

Tom: Do you guys…you think you have a snowboard bias at Trew?

Tripp: No. We probably sell 80% to skiers.

Tom: Oh really? I mean, heli-boarding, not snowboarding.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah. Ah, no. We’re definitely trying to do both.

Tom: I feel like Hood had a higher percentage of boarders than a lot of mountains. Do you think that’s true or not really?

Tripp: Mmm, I don’t know how many…I don’t know.

Tom: Cool. You should hit up some of the—just unsolicited advice—hit up some of the heliskiing operators and see if they would put their guides in your gear.

Tripp: Well, we do sponsor one heli operator.

Tom: Oh. Who’s that?

Tripp: Skeena Heliskiing.

Tom: Oh, no kidding.

Tripp: Up in Smithers.

Tom: Sure, I have skied with Skeena Heliskiing!

Tripp: And so we provide them with their outfits, and then they buy some stuff to sell in their store.

Tom: That’s amazing. I wonder if maybe that’s how I ended up finding you guys, because I know Jake reasonably well.

Tripp: Oh, you do? Yeah.

Tom: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve been there. Have you skied with him?

Tripp: No.

Tom: You should hit him up.

Tripp: Yeah, we are getting a couple of seats. Another thing we’re doing this year is we have this RV that we bought when we first started going. So we converted into a mobile store. So the RV’s going around to dealers in the industry events and stuff, and one of the big…the big promotion running is if you spend 100 dollars on the RV your email gets in a raffle to win a free week of heli-skiing with Skeena.

Tom: And does the website tell you where the mobile store is going to be?

Tripp: Yup, there’s a counter in there kind of updated…you know, we’re trying to keep it fresh and updated, things we’re trying to change a little bit, but yeah, if you just go there it’s trewgear.com/tour.

Tom: So who drives that thing around?

Tripp: We kind of all do but we hired a guy to do it for the winter – between now and middle of January.

Tom: Yeah, like if he’s going to go from Jackson Hole to Telluride, “I’ll see you there.”

Tripp: Yeah, he just drives and we meet him up along the way.

Tom: That’s the way to go. It’s like a rock star tour where you just…you fly the jet and you meet the crew there with all the stuff.

Tripp: That’s right.

Tom: And does it go to ski resorts, like you would see it at a resort hanging out?

Tripp: Yeah, I mean, we’re going to kind of figure that out a little bit. I mean, you know, right now there’s no resorts – we’re just kind of going to dealers. So we’re pretty much going to be in the Northwest for this next month, and then we’re going to be in the Bay Area actually in middle of November.

We’ll be in Tahoe and Reno, and then Salt Lake, and then Colorado, Jackson Hole, Sun Valley, and then that’ll be kind of it.

Tom: That’s cool. I can get those dates out to our list and see if people will show up to meet you there. That’d be cool.

Tripp: Yeah. It’s such and interesting area, such a huge city and there’s like two or three shops that are like good shops. Lombardi’s is the one that we want to be in, probably. California’s a weird place. [you can say that again] There’s not a lot of independent shops anymore.

Tom: It is a weird place for that. There’s also a great shop in Berkeley, California Ski Company, who really kind of specializes in boots but they sell gear, and I think they’re pretty good.

Tripp: Right. Yeah, there’s just not a lot of independent shops and it’s kind of like a strange situation.

 

Tom: Your website says, “When geopolitical instability drives you deep into the mountains to live off the land and shred glades of private pow, the TREWTH is the only bib you’ll need.” Who writes that stuff? That is classic.

Tripp: Yeah. We work with this guy—he lives in Park City—who does all of our copy.

Tom: It’s just hilarious. So what’s been the hardest part about starting a brand and getting it up and going?

Tripp: Um, my, good question. A lot of things.

Tom: I actually know Chip Wilson, who started Lululemon, and I remember the manufacturing was a huge challenge because he needed money and he needed sizeable orders, he was having it done in far-off places that you had to go visit, and it was kind of a big deal.

Tripp: That’s the biggest challenge for sure, is manufacturing. It’s getting the things you want from a faraway place, and it’s the hardest thing. And you think you ought to go just kind of like give them all these specs, and they ought to be able to just whip it up. But no. It just takes so much effort to like oversee it…

Tom: Yeah. Distance, language, culture, money, all that stuff.

Tripp: Yeah. Yeah.

Tom: Timing. What’s been the most fun part of it?

Tripp: The most fun thing is, well, that’s a good question. I mean, obviously being out there and spending time on the mountain in the gear that you make and have people recognize that it works is a pretty darn good feeling. But I think…so that’s like, on an instinctual level, that’s the best, that’s the best feeling, is when you’re like out there using your gear and you’re like, “This is so cool.”

Tom: That is cool.

Tripp: But, you know, it’s nice to know that we’re building a brand, and we’re all really committed to growing this company and getting it…keep building. We’re still a small little company. Yet somehow we managed to create the illusion that we’re some grand huge thing.

Tom: I think that’s the goal of all startups, right? I call it Operation Blowfish where you try to look like you’re much bigger than you really are.

Tripp: Yeah, so…yeah, I think we’ve done a really good job of that and… But it’s really cool to see a brand that resonates and, you know, can keep putting out products that people want.

Tom: Yeah, that’s cool. And do you get any product feedback from Jake [Skeena Heliskiing] and his guys about the gear?

Tripp: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, we got a whole, you know, long email, maybe an attached document with all kinds of feedback.

Tom: Oh, that’s cool. He’s a great guy. Have you skied with him?

Tripp: No, haven’t.

Tom: I’ve skied with a lot of great skiers – he’s probably the best I’ve ever skied with.

Tripp: Really?

Tom: Unbelievable, yeah. I mean, for 15 years in Europe he raced moguls, and so his technique is flawless, fast, smooth. The guy is just amazing.

Tripp: I got to try to get up there.

Tom: You do have to go up there. One of the problems is he’s always booked. I mean, he’s…I almost never send anybody to Jake because by the middle of summer booked with Europeans, because he draws from that same market that he used to live in.

Tripp: Uh-huh.

Tom: And I’ll bet right now he’s got one week with any availability in the whole season. Maybe hit him up for cancellations because you could hop up there pretty easily from Oregon.

Tripp: Yeah, we gave him gear and he’ll give us a couple of seats, but I just kind of got to be ready to make a move real quick and get up there.

Tom: Yeah. You have to be in shape. They ski fast. Europeans don’t mess around.

 

 

Tom: So what else do you do for fun? You’re a kiteboarder?

Tripp: Kiteboarder, mountain biker, runner, and yeah, those are kind of my standard for the Gorge [Hood River Gorge, Oregon/Washington]

Tom: Yeah, it is. I was a windsurfer, a dinosaur now, but mountain biking, and I swam, I didn’t run, but I’ve just skied too many bumps, I guess.

Tripp: Mm-hmm.

Tom: So what about neon? Back in the day we used to say, “Friends don’t let friends wear dayglow,” but now it seems to be coming back.

Tripp: Um, yeah, that’s coming back a little bit. Like this year’s line we’ve featured a little like, some neon zippers and stuff. Nothing too crazy, just kind of like little hits. I think all of the stuff is so cyclical, you know. It just comes and goes. It’ll come back.

Tom: So I wonder how you figured that out then, like what are you designing next winter stuff?

Tripp: Oh, next winter stuff has already been designed six months, seven months ago.

Tom: I mean, 2014-15 stuff?

Tripp: Yeah, seven months ago.

Tom: No kidding?

Tripp: Were early, and we’re even behind. We’re slow at the most.

Tom: A year and a half in advance?

Tripp: Easily.

Tom: Wow, that’s amazing.

Tripp: This industry is really challenging. I mean, that’s one of the biggest things, is I don’t think many people… there’s not many startups. There’s not that many startups in technical apparel because if you spend any time doing it you realize how difficult it is.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: There are enormous lead times with raw materials and production takes an extremely long time, and so yeah, you have to have your sample order in by May so that they can have samples here in the fall so you could take them to your dealers, because you have to get orders from Northeast and Patagonia and Marmot their orders with their retailer…retailers have to have their orders in by December 1st basically for the following season.

Tom: Wow. What if you miss it? What if you come out with neon and that year everybody’s out of neon and you’re…is the whole company at risk?

Tripp: Yeah. It’s very difficult to try to figure all that out and, you know, a lot of these retailers. It’s December and they haven’t even sold for the winter. They have no idea what’s selling, what’s not. I mean, it’s just a real…it’s a conundrum, the whole supply chain is slow and I think the people who can mix that up…and we’re trying to figure out a way to kind of shake that up. Selling more direct, selling more off of the website is one way to kind of combat that, because you can sell for cheaper, because you don’t have to build wholesale margins.

Tom: And…I mean that must be challenging in a couple of ways because if you cut out the retailer, then you’ll kill them off or lose them. So is that kind of a balancing act?

Tripp: Yeah, totally. I mean, you can’t do both. You can’t sell product direct off a website and at a low price and then also try to sell it retail. You have to choose.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: But, you know, the web is not going away, so.

Tom: Yeah, I know…

Tripp: Retailers who try to fight the web are fighting a losing battle.

Tom: And so at what point do you have to have the money to make the order?

Tripp: It depends. Everyone…I’m sure it’s all different with different organizations, and if you’re maybe more stylish you get better terms from your factories and stuff. Typically, it’s 50% upon placing a purchase order, and then 50% upon ship.

Tom: And then are you able to borrow that from the bank like a line of credit?

Tripp: Yup.

 

Tom: Yeah. And where did your startup money come from?

Tripp: Mostly just friends and family.

Tom: Yeah? That’s cool. They’re probably happy now, eh?

Tripp: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said we’re a small little company still. We’re not rolling in it. I promise you that.

Tom: Yeah. Are you still looking for money then, like to go…?

Tripp: No, now we’re not.

Tom: It seems to be a constant struggle – as soon as you close one round, you have to start thinking about the next one. So it’s not nice that you’re not consumed by that. I’ve done a bunch of startups and it just seems to be the way to go – as soon as you close one round you start thinking, “Alright, our next horizon is six months out and we have to have these things done by then,” and that sort of thing.

Tripp: Yeah. Yeah, no, thankfully we’re kind of in a spot where now we’re okay. Well, we’ll see. You know, we’re all trying to grow our business a lot in the next couple of years and it’s going to require some more capital somehow probably.

Tom: Yeah, and a lot of companies can succeed themselves to death when they run out of cash. How about production? I guess the only one that I’m all that familiar with is Arc’teryx. They seem to have a limited production. Like if you go try to order something in August-September, a lot of the good stuff in the colors that you want is already sold out.

Tripp: What do you mean, off their website?

Tom: Yeah, and so I wonder, is it a conscious decision they make to not end up with leftover inventory at the end year, they’d rather make it a little harder to get a hold of and not have anything left over, than they would build a whole bunch extra that may end up sitting around?

Tripp: Yeah. I mean, that’s smart. I mean, yeah, I don’t know…I know they do sell direct off their website but I’m not sure…you know, that’s the whole point of getting these preseason orders in December is so you make to order.

Tom: Yeah. Maybe it’s the pro deals. They only allocate so much for the pro deals.

Tripp: Oh yeah, they probably do limit the pro deal. I mean, if you’re looking at their process, they probably offer certain things depending on availability.

Tom: That makes sense. I’m curious, do you end up with stuff at the end of the year that you sell at Overstock or somewhere like that?

Tripp: The goal is no, but yeah, we typically do a little bit. Yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: Most companies do. Managing your inventory is just so hard.

Tom: Yeah. And who decides what stuff you’re going to build and in what quantities? Like do you guys have discussions internally where you say, “I love this jacket,” and another guy says, “No, that one’s never going to sell,” and how do you decide how much of a commitment to make to that?

Tripp: Oh, we look at preseason buy. We have a forecasting model that we plug stuff into and it gives us kind of like bell curves on sizes and based on what people are ordering, and we look at like past year’s information in terms of what sold and kind of try to equate what colors would,, “Okay, the brown from last year is equivalent to like the green this year, that one did this well, and so forth.

Tom: Damn, that sounds like an interesting challenge.

Tripp: It is.

Tom: There’s a lot of guesstimating going on.

Tripp: Very true.

 

Tom: So what has been the bestseller for Trew GEAR so far?

Tripp: The bib, for sure.

Tom: Yeah?

Tripp: Yeah. It’s kind of our flagship product. When we first came out with it, no one was doing a full-on technical free-ride bib, and now everyone is doing it.

Tom: Yeah, they seemed to be just kind of bags with suspenders on them, and back in the day there was nothing to them.

Tripp: Yeah.

Tom: Like pockets and they didn’t have much in the way of features and all that. Now they’re super-high-tech.

Tripp: Now they are feature-rich for sure.

Tom: The one I ski in has kneepads, believe it or not, sewn in so when you’re kneeling to get in and out of the chopper there’s more comfy.

Tripp: Oh, excellent.

Tom: But I think that’s probably not a feature that a lot of people are going to buy.

Tripp: Who makes them?

Tom: Arc’teryx.

Tripp: They make a heli-specific pant?.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: Okay.

Tom: Yeah, and a guide jacket. Yeah. Again, it’s not a feature… Might be a good feature for the girls’ bib. [Laughs]

Tripp: We make a women’s bib, I’ll have to think about that.

Tom: I’ll work on the name.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah. You come up with a name. We sell the Chariot bib but we can do a spinoff of that.

Tom: [Laughs] Chariot?

Tripp: That’s the name of our women’s bib.

 

womens heli-skiing bibs F13_CHARIOT_GRY_BACK F13_CHARIOT_EMD_FRONT F13_CHARIOT_EMD_BACK F13_CHARIOT_CNY_FRONT F13_CHARIOT_CNY_BACK F13_CHARIOT_BLK_FRONT F13_CHARIOT_BLK_BACK

Tom: Okay. I’ll work on that. [Laughs] I’m sitting down picturing the logo kind of redone in a way that would be more provocative as well.

Tripp: Right. Okay. Let’s see where you’re going with that…..

F13_THUMB_T_BLK F13_THUMB_T_GLD heliskiing logo TREW

Tom: [Laughs]

Tripp: Nice.

 

TREW GEAR Team Rider Shawnie Rasking gives the TREW thumbs up

 

Tom: I crack myself up. So let me see if I have any other interesting to ask you, because I digress. Oh, so have you ever been heli-skiing or heli-boarding?

Tripp: Well, I have, yeah.

Tom: Where did you go?

Tripp: Ah, went with SEABA in Haines, Alaska.

Tom: Oh, how was that?

Tripp: Yeah, well, amazing.

Tom: Alaska, man. Tell me, what was your reaction to it?

Tripp: It’s just…it’s unbelievable, the beauty, the mountains. I mean, it just really is remarkable and spectacular.

Tom: It is.

Tripp: And skiing when it’s…I mean, I spent a bunch of time in British Columbia on hut trips and stuff, heli and hut trips. And, I don’t know, I’m not sure what’s better, but Alaska or British Columbia has the best skiing on the planet. I’ve never skied in Europe but, yeah, there really is something else in…Just when you get up in the heli and you get up high and you can see the ice fields and just as far as you can see just massive peaks, and then you have the ocean and it’s just really incredible.

Tom: Isn’t that amazing? I have the same feeling. It is truly spectacular. The scenery alone, it just seems like everything’s on a bigger scale. In addition to that, it’s steep as hell, right?

Tripp: Yeah.

Tom: They probably take you to some stuff that just scares you.

Tripp: Oh yeah.

Tom: I remember standing on a peak where it wasn’t big enough for all of us to put our skis on at the same time. We had to take turns.

Tripp: Really?

Tom: And then you look all around and I couldn’t tell which way we were going down. It all looked like certain death to me. It was just amazing! And they can you stuff as steep as you want. It’s awesome.

Tripp: Yeah. No, I had the time of my life. I’ve started saving up my pennies to go to that again.

Tom: Cool. I just interviewed a guy with a new operation up there that sounded pretty cool – Black Ops.

Tripp: Yeah?

Tom: Yeah, that’ll be out, I don’t know, we’ll see in a couple of days. Hopefully the interview will be done. But yeah, I know a bunch of the guys up there, so if you go again I’ll be happy to give you advice.

Tripp: Sweet, yeah. I just kind of met the SEABA guys, through friends of friends and met Sunny and a couple of other guys and stuff, it was an amazing trip.

Tom: Cool. Anyplace else? You said heli and hut trips, so they drop you at the beginning of the week and then come get you?

Tripp: Yup. I mean, up in Canada I’ve been in Fairy Meadows Hut, I’ve been to Ice Fall and to Swordshore. All are heli in, so you get…yeah, for a week, you know?

Tom: Cool.

Trip: Then you tour for the whole week.

Tom: Yeah, that’s more hardcore. You don’t have as much gray hair as I do.

Tripp: I’ve started working on it…

 

 

 

F13_EAGLE_BLK_FRONTheli ski pant F13_EAGLE_FRONT_GLD F13_EAGLE_CAMO_FRONT

 

heliskiing pants TREW

TREW Eagle Heliski Pant

 

Tom: Cool. And so where do you like to go kiting?

Tripp: I love the Coast. I mean, around here, I prefer to go up the Coast than actually the Gorge, to be honest with you.

Tom: Uh-huh.

Tripp: I like Roosevelt if I’m going to kite the Gorge out East, but I’ve traveled, um, not recently but between five and eight years ago I went to Brazil three times.

Tom: Oh wow.

Tripp: And I’ve just been down there for a week many times and amazing kiteboarding down there. Amazing windsurfing too.

Tom: Cool.

Tripp: I like to get back to a warm-weather spot.

Tom: Yeah, I heli-skied with a guy who has set up his own kiteboarding school down in Texas…

Tripp: South Padre Island, probably.

Tom: Yeah, and he has like helmets with a microphone and headphones built in and he’s got built in two-way radio, chase…

Tripp: Jet skis, yeah. It’s a good place to learn, actually. I’ve been there a couple of times as well.

Tom: It’s shallow, right?

Tripp: Yeah, shallow. That’s a big thing for kiting. Same thing probably windsurfing, so you can stand up…if you end up downwind, you can stand up and walk back up, walk to the beach and you’re not just like flopping around in the water.

Tom: Yeah, like the Outer Banks (North Carolina) same thing.

Tripp: Yeah.

 

Tom: So have you guys thought about doing any crossover? I remember meeting the Da Kine founder, Rob, who had at the time of 350 SKUs. Anytime they see a problem, like they invent a little doodad to fix it. Have you thought about crossing over into summer or water sports?

Tripp: Um, a little bit but not really. I mean, we’re just trying to expand kind of our winter line and encompass kind of more lifestyle wearability, you know? Like the skis, you know, just like performance soft shells, and then next year we have like…we’re really expanding this part of our line. The stuff that people wear on a day-to-day basis, it’s not as expensive. I mean, whether it’s a 400- or a 500-dollar jacket, you know, that’s our price point for our shells, it’s not…or 700 dollars like an Arc’teryx, but it’s still pretty expensive.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: You know, people don’t buy that that often. So we need stuff that people even who don’t need that kind of jacket will buy.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: I mean, Arc’teryx is kind of the…

Tom: Price leader?

Tripp: Well, price leader, but they’re the exception to the rule. Whereas they actually do make a lot of technical…they sell a lot of technical shells. They sell three-layer Gore-Tex shells and they make leaps and bounds more than anyone else. I mean, you’d be surprised, I mean, Patagonia has like their Super Alpine Jacket, which is a really nice jacket, it’s a three-layer Gore-Tex shell, it retails for about 600 bucks, same thing as Arc’teryx, but I bet Patagonia sells a third or a quarter or less of the amount of their technical shells that Arc’teryx sells.

Tom: It’s surprising too because I would guess the Patagonia brand is much more…has much more equity than the Arc’teryx brand with the exception of the, you know, people way out on the curve who are hardcore skiers, boarders. Like my mom’s heard of Patagonia, right? I’m sure. But Arc’teryx, no way.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah, but I mean that’s like, you know, Patagonia makes…they don’t make a lot of money on the technical shells. They make money on their pants and their Nano Puffs and their fleeces.

 

TREW Polarshift
TREW Polarshift

Tom: Yeah, fleeces, right?

Tripp: It’s the day-to-day kind of stuff that’s really wearable that’s how they’re making their money.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: They’d still make the really technical stuff because that’s really important. I mean, that’s important for their brand, just like we would never stop making our super-technical stuff, but I think even Arc’teryx sells a lot of other stuff. They sell more technical stuff than anything else, but they still sell a lot of fleeces and, you know, whatever, other shirts and jackets. They sell other stuff too.

Tom: Yeah. I mean, my introduction to them was when my luggage didn’t show up at a heli-ski lodge and there was another dude there who had an entire Arc’teryx outfit for me to use until my stuff showed up. And I was kind of bummed that my suitcase came because it was way nicer than any of my stuff…

Tom: Hey, so fleece, are you guys into that?

Tripp: We have a new fleece issue that’s 100% made in USA. It’s kind of cool. Check it out on our website.

Tom: Okay.

Tripp: It’s called The Vaporizer.

Mens Vaporizer Fleece:

 

F13_VAPORIZER_GRY_FRONT F13_VAPORIZER_SPT_FRONTheliskiing fleece mens

 

 

 

Womens Vaporizer Fleece:

 

F13_VAPORIZER_W_GE_FRONT heliskiing fleece vaporizer

 

Tripp: And it’s Gore-Tex power-dry fleece. So that’s the super-high-performance-grid fleece and it comes from Massachusetts, and we did the cut-and-sew in Oregon, so it’s all made in the US.

Tom: Oh, cool.

Tripp: And so it has a great like mid layer, like right over your long johns.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: And it breathes really well, helps regulate temperature.

 

Tom: My typical heliskiing outfit is a base layer, then a thin mid layer, long-sleeve, and I’ll pack a vest in my backpack, and you get a…everybody who heli-skis now has to know how to tote a pack anyway. If it’s cold up with the vest on, but if it’s not That seems to work for everything because you’re in and out of the chopper so fast and you’re skiing a lot and you’re skiing five minutes between runs maybe.

Tripp: Right.

Tom: You guys make a vest?

Tripp: We have a vest coming out next year.

Tom: Cool. Next year as in 14-15?

Tripp: Yeah, 14-15.

Tom: Great. Send one to me, please.

Tripp: Sure.

Tom: I can’t believe how far ahead you have to think. That’s crazy.

Tripp: Yeah, it really is crazy.

Tom: That’s mind-blowing. I mean, you’re figuring out the product line before you… Well, I guess you do know what’s sold sort of preseason.

Tripp: Yeah, I know preseason, but yeah you’re just like creating products that are…yeah, so it’s just crazy. And from a cash flow perspective, you know, it’s like it’s kind of nuts.

Tom: So you expect some of the soft shell stuff to be popular with heliskiers, too?

Tripp: Like I was saying, the Polar Shift and The Vaporizer has kind of like great layers and pieces that accompany the shells.

Tom: Alright, cool.

Tripp: Cool. Well, I really appreciate you reaching out and giving our little company a little shout-out.

Tom: Hey, my pleasure, Tripp. Nice to meet you.

Tripp: Nice to meet you, too.

Tom: Bye. Thanks, bye.

 

 

 

Interview: Cold Smoke Gear – Inspired by Heli-Skiing, Tested by Heli-Ski Guides

 

Cold Smoke heil-skiing apparel logo

 

Cold Smoke Apparel takes its name from the ultimate heli-skiing powder – cold smoke.    Cold Smoke is the latest in our continuing series of interviews with heli-skiing gear manufacturers.   HELISKI.com skyped with Randall Breitenbach and Imani Lanier of Coldsmoke apparel.  Enjoy.

 

Tom: So I read the description of the origin of the Cold Smoke brand, which I think is pretty cool.    And so I’m curious about the connection with Powder Mountain Heli-Skiing / Catskiing [one of 3 Whistler heli-skiing operators we represent at HELISKI.com. You’re an owner there and here. Which came first?

Randy: Powder Mountain Heli-Skiing came quite a few years ago. I got involved when it was a small cat skiing operation and it was…I think I got involved like four or five years before the Olympics came in to the Vancouver area. I bought it with a friend of mine actually from Stanford, and he raced and we did a lot of heli-skiing and stuff after college. I lived in Alaska for a few years and we’d been out and about, and he in fact was the one that kind of stumbled across it. We looked at doing something…we actually worked with Joe at Ruby Mountains and had thought about buying in with them, owning a part of his operation or building him a lodge and doing some things like that, and we never could really could get off center, so we stumbled across this place up in Whistler which had this fantastic tenure for cat skiing, and at the time though it was really kind of rundown and had a couple of old cats.

I’ve lived in Alaska for two years back in the early eighties it was a pretty exciting time and certainly a lot of fun.

In any event, back to Powder Mountain, my friend Doug Ballinger stumbled across this place and so we bought in and recapitalized it, put in some new cats, etc. And we had no advertising budget because it really didn’t make money, and so we stumbled across some kind of funny ideas of how to expand it. In fact, we had this pretty ridiculous but ended up being hilarious idea of having a beauty contest, and we had what we called Miss Powder Mountain and it went off in Whistler!

 

powder mtn. heli-skiing poster

 

 

 

 

It started as kind of a small deal, but what we hadn’t realized is we hit on something really big and it was before Whistler opened; it was early season. If you get the 40 hottest girls in town into a bar, the entire town comes.

Tom: Yeah, I know. I’ve been a bum four different times and, you know, if you don’t have a girlfriend by Thanksgiving you’re pretty much out of luck, right?

Randy: Right, exactly. Exactly. Well, actually I should have said it differently – the only 40 girls in town.  All 40 girls were there!

Tom: And I thought you stumbled across something brilliant, which is sex sells.

Randy: Oh no, honestly, we laughingly use that a lot. And it did, it went off, and we got a lot of sponsors, we got a lot of notoriety and we started filling the place. Like I said, we were able to get some new cats – we put in four new cats. And coming in to the Olympics, we really picked up some steam and things were going great, and with the Olympic right on the horizon we figured…we decided we wanted to get into the heli business as well and really step it up, and we worked to expand our tenure and we cut a deal with a local heli operation out at Squamish and picked up over 250,000 acres of tenure, which pretty much covers everything from Vancouver all the way into Whistler, so that whole inlet area there which is just spectacular skiing when the conditions are right because you’re looking down on the water and it is truly epic for heli-skiing.

Tom: I used to have an office in Vancouver that overlooked the seaplane landing and takeoff spot looking up toward Whistler. Just beautiful.

Randy: Yeah, it’s beautiful countryside.  And the other thing that I really liked about where we were in Powder Mountain, and this was just from years of spending a lot of time up in the mountains heli-skiing and stuff where you get shut out, and you know, not talking anything bad about Wiegele’s, but one time I had a week-long Wiegele’s trip where I was shut out for four-and-a-half days …

Tom: It’s brutal.

Randy: Oh, it’s brutal. You’re in the middle of no-where and you’re playing foosball with  a bunch of Swedish guys and it’s just not fun.

Tom: I’ll tell you, I’ve been in that movie more times than I want to remember.

Randy: Yeah.

Tom: Once I was in…yeah, I was in Valdez once and skied one out of seven days.

Randy: Same deal. And the thing that always got me going about Powder Mountain was its location and that we didn’t even try to compete with the lodging because you’ve got Whistler right there and you’ve got like…and you know, a world-class facility which is a much younger kind of cross-section, much more adventurous than some of this…you know, places like Aspen and Vail and that sort of thing but still have the size and restaurants and everything else. And what’s nice is, and we allow this, is that you sign up for heli-skiing and if helis aren’t flying you can cat ski, and if you don’t want to cat ski we don’t charge you – you can go ski in Whistler Blackcomb…..or go to bars.

Tom: Let me ask you about that because my experience is they always wait to call it off. So you’re hanging around at 9 o’clock, they say, “Oh, we’re going to make another call at 10,” or “We’re going to do an early lunch and try to get out in the afternoon,” and pretty soon the day has been pissed away. Are you able to call it early enough for people to really get on the mountain and do some skiing?

Randy: Not all the time. I wouldn’t say that, but there’s obvious, more obvious ones of course, and it’s more you know you’re socked in for the next four days. I’m not…I’m skiing Whistler Blackcomb or I’m spending time at the spa.

And the other thing that we liked is, you know, Vancouver, and I’m not a big urban guy but at the same time Vancouver’s a pretty incredible city…and we run…you know, that not many people have used because it’s pretty expensive, but we run a package where you can ski at the Four Seasons in Vancouver and we’ll come pick you up and take you up in the hills and you can heli-ski for the afternoon. It’s pretty outrageous but it’s incredible, I mean with the scenery there!

Tom: You know, this interview goes on a blog and then it goes on The Ski Channel and other places and I’ve done it with Powder Mountain and we’re promoting that idea. I think it’s extremely cool.

Randy: Yeah, no, and I’ve been very fortunate that, you know, the operation’s only as good as the people that are up there running it, and Gordon Calder, he’s our lead manager up there…

Tom: Yeah, I know Gordon.  Check out our inteview with Gordon ‘The Mayor of Whistler.’

Randy: He’s spectacular. He’s so hands-on and makes things happen and he understands that this isn’t, you know, people aren’t up there…the heli-ski guides don’t have to be assholes, you know?

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: It’s a service. We have our guides lined up out in front of the place as the people come in, shake their hands, introduce everybody. You know, as you’re getting off the heli at the bottom, we’ve been fortunate, because of those Miss Powder Mountain parties a beer, a beer was named named after our mountain … they named a lager, called Powder Mountain Lager, so everybody gets a beer as they’re getting off the heli and, I mean it’s just a neat operation in that regard.  Yeah, I mean, and they pride themselves on that, yeah. And our lead guy is a guy named Don Schwartz and he actually used to work at Mike Wiegele’s Helicopter Skiing,and he’s kind of a…he’s a pretty special guy. He has a pretty unfortunate accent where he saved some people, and he’s a pretty amazing guy. Now he’s doing all those death races and shit. The guy’s like Hercules. But he’s a really conservative good guy obviously given his past. Makes sure everyone’s safe. We’re not a Valdez. We’re not trying to rock people’s world, you know, and put the hair on their back, you know, on edge.

I want my people to make it back alive and happy.

Tom: And is one of the guides, Ken Achenbach?

Randy: Yup, Ken Achenbach who’s quite a celebrity as well, obviously, one of the first snowboarders up Calgary. He, you know, those little posters where people used to jump off cliffs that when I was in high school I thought was crazy? That was him.  Before snowboarding was cool. It was Ken. And he’s got Camp of Champions as well, so he’s continuing to push the whole winter culture.

Tom: I was a bum in Vail one year when the country went from 90% of the resorts didn’t allow snowboards to the following year 90% did. That was just amazing.

Randy: Vail snob. I was a skier.

Tom: Yeah, they started it at Beaver Creek first, so we would spend the whole day in the Beaver Creek trees on our boards, and then the following year you could snowboard anywhere.

Randy: I used to refer to them as knuckle drivers but now I’m now a boarder, so I probably board more than I ski. I switched to boarding when I moved to LA.

Tom: Oh, that makes sense… So you know how a snowboarder introduces himself?

Imani: How’s that?

Tom: “Oh, sorry dude.”

[Laughter]

Randy: That’s good.

Tom: Alright, so anyway, the Powder Mountain Heli-Skiing / Cat Skiing guys give you feedback into the product. Maybe we should talk about that a little bit.

Randy: Yeah, years ago actually when I bought Powder Mountain Heli-Skiing, I wanted to have a company in between me and the heli skiing operation.  And that company needed a name and I used the name Cold Smoke.

Tom: Cool.

Randy: Now, honestly, at the time, didn’t think it would be available. I was kind of surprised when it was available.

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: Because I’d seen it in a number of places before. And the story, that’s pretty, you know we talk about it on the website, but it was actually at another heli ski operation, you probably know Peter Mattssen [aka Swede] out at Bella Coola Heli-Sports (read Heli-Skiing.)

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: I mean, he was actually the guide that said, “When the snow’s perfect it’s Cold Smoke”

Randy: It was hilarious, because that’s why I remember it so much, because it was the night before we were sitting at the fire. Another old saying he loved to say was, like we would be sitting there and he’d start passing around a bottle of, what was it, Crown Royal, like it was nasty, and he would say, “Drink it blue! We’re going to drink it blue!” and jump across the fire. I mean, it wasn’t really funny…

He’s quite a character. But that’s where the name came from, and when I realized I had the name and then I realized…I checked and I realized it hadn’t been trademarked, I obviously got really curious. I loved the name. I had always had a passion about the ski business and Winter culture and that sort of thing, and so I thought it was an opportunity at least to lock it up. And to do that and to cover things, I became very knowledgeable about trademark law and stuff actually over the long haul because you actually have to make this shit to protect it.

Tom: I know, and you got to show publicly… I’ve had too much exposure to that myself. I have a naming company called Nameboy that does domain names, but also I’ve had a lot of startups with a lot of trademark issues. It’s a gauntlet.

Randy: Well, that’s what kind of got me started making clothes, because I wanted to protect the name. I started making slacks or maybe T-shirts and pants and stuff…

Tom: Oh sure, yeah, you got to have some product to show.

Randy: And then I put up a website a number of years ago, and started making jackets for my guides, nothing special, honestly.  I would find a very well-made kind of off-brand jacket, personalize it a little bit and give it to my guides, basically, and used it for the cat skiing and for the heli guides and that sort of stuff. And they used them once in a while, but they’ve been sponsored…we have a lot of sponsors up here now.  We have topnotch equipment. And so the guides in the cats would wear them but not really the guides on the hill for the most part.   Roll forward a number of years and I, just kind of serendipity, met Imani. It was actually, I don’t know if you want to go in that in detail…

Randy: I was living in the penthouse of the Standard downtown, and there was a pre-Coachella party going on in the roof deck, and Imani at the time was the founder and director behind an online magazine called Western Civ Mag, and he was on the roof deck taking photos of all these pretty hot girls running around and we started talking.

And so we hit it off over a number of beers, and then he was in a situation where he had to make a decision, it was just totally coincidental that he happened to be an apparel guy and had quite an obviously pretty spectacular history and so on and so forth, and coincidentally was looking at a job that he needed to talk about with Burton back East……and honestly didn’t want to go to Vermont, so…

Imani: [Laughs]

Tom: I have a story like that for you.  In the late eighties Steve Case said to me, “You want to work at AOL? Come on back to Virginia.” I said, “Nah.”

Randy: San Francisco is pretty damn nice…

Tom: Right.

Randy: Yeah. So now it’s same thing…

Tom: So Imani, what other clothing stuff have you designed? Anything that I might have heard of?

Imani: Nike, Levis

Tom: So, smaller brands mostly?

Imani: Yeah, mostly smaller brands.

[Laughter]

Imani: I was with Nike for four-and-a-half years in the Asia-Pacific region. I’m doing their sportswear collections for all of Asia and Australia and New Zealand. I did premium denim for Levi’s. And then before that I was part of the like street culture, street wear, the renaissance of it, like the beginnings of it with a lot of the LA brands, a couple of New York brands like Supreme and Extra Large and what have you, the Cool Kids stuff. So one of those guys that…

Tom: Yeah. I think I saw you on Entourage….

Imani: Is that what it was? [Laughs] And so yeah, I’ve been doing it for about 23 years, and when Randy and I met, you know, it’s funny because I just…he was telling me about what he was doing as far as building jackets for the guides and what have you and, you know, basically my approach with Randy was, you know, I didn’t want to be at Burton, [laughs] I really didn’t. I had just gotten back from Vermont and wasn’t happy with what I saw at all. I mean, the offices are awesome, but the neighborhood and the…you know, just it’s…there’s not a lot going on.

Tom: My first ever snowboard experience, they only had a couple of boards to rent. One of them was called The Burton Cruiser. We dubbed it The Burton Bruiser.

Imani: [Laughs]

Tom: Three out of the six people ended up with broken bones. [Laughs]

Imani: Exactly. Exactly. But I basically, you know, when Randy and I were talking it was just like, “If you ever need any help with what you’re doing with Cold Smoke, then just let me know.” And a few weeks later he got an itch and gave me a call and we met, and fortunately Randy’s a really good guy and so as opposed to just hiring me to create his vision he actually asked me to partner up with him, which was very cool.

Tom: Cool.

Imani: And so we did and we started, and that was like in April 2012. Yeah, April 2012.

Randy: Not long.

Imani: Yeah.

Tom: And, oh yeah, especially given the lead times, I was just talking to the guys who started Trew [Gear, see our recent interview] up in Hood River and they’re like almost two years out, the design production cycle…

Randy: Yeah, it’s a total pain in the ass.

[Laughter]

Tom: I also…you might know Chip Wilson, he started Lululemon…

Randy: Yeah.

Tom: And has…manufacturing’s always been a huge challenge.

Imani: Right.

Randy: I mean, we’re trying to buck that a little bit.

Tom: Trying to speed it up?

Randy: There’s a different direction, honestly, for all of those exact reasons, you know, the whole…I’m far from an expert in this, but it seems to me directionally that like a lot of businesses, whether it’s music business, entertainment business, the whole retail, I mean we’ve already seen it change so many different areas, it’s just, …we think the retail model’s kind of broken and it has forced us.   A couple of different things that really pisses us off—pisses me off—not taking anything from the retail business and not… The interesting thing is I jumped into this not understanding what the norm is…

Tom: Which is often a good way to innovate.

Randy: Which I think was probably a much better way to look at it. I’m like, “Why do we have to do this?”

Tom: Like why does everybody have reps?

Randy: Everybody up to be ready 12 months before the season just because the buyers come in – and they hose you, regularly for the next six months…

Tom: And you need a whole fleet of stoner reps who occasionally stop by the store.

Randy: It’s crazy. There is just so much idiocy, and then obviously I’ve, through some friends and stuff, I’ve seen enough businesses and businesses fail because of big orders, because of success, honestly, and unfortunately the way that it’s geared with big companies like Nordstrom’s and stuff, they’re not set up and they’re not incented to be selective in what they order. They’ll just order whatever they want even if it never gets up on the rack. And because then they send it right back at you at the end of the season.

Tom: I think when a brand ends up in those stores it’s kind of done one way or another.

Randy: Right, right, exactly. So we’re…to try to mitigate some of that exposure and some of that risk and also to try to shorten the amount of period that we need between us deciding what we want to make and getting it up and out the door, we’re going almost exclusively on the web.

Tom: That’s cool.

Randy: We’re doing a couple stores just to be able to say that we’re in the store, but we’re really pushing the whole web model.  And the biggest point was, I mean there was all those hassles, but there was the biggest issue for us became the cost. And for us, because of the quality that…I mean, one thing that we wanted to do that was kind of my directive…I just kind of put guide rails up there and let Imani run with it, but the guide rails that I wanted in place were the highest possible quality. If my guides are going to be wearing this, this has to be the best stuff on the mountain. So I want the best new materials, I want the best zippers, I want the best seals, I want…and I want the pockets where the guides want them and I want, you know… And so we spend over a season doing that stuff, and I think putting together some equipment that’s pretty outstanding and goes toe-to-toe with anybody honestly. So we’re pretty excited about that. But then the problem was, as to getting to the retail, was a thousand-dollar jacket. [Laughs]

Tom: I know.

Randy: I mean, it was a thousand dollars.

Tom: I started Intel’s wireless business, and if you remember, the wireless model was really broken that the retail store got a big bounty for selling the phone, then they got a piece of the action ongoing. So I went to the equivalent manufacturer and said, “Why don’t you give us the money? We’ll lower the price of our hardware at wholesale, so a lower priced product gets marketed up, so we could get it into the market cheaper.”   Everybody wins……. except the retail guy.

Randy: Yeah. No, I mean, they screw themselves by setting up this way, they’re continuing to push the wrong buttons and then you’re pushing new producers out of the market, and I think it’s just an antiquated model. But anyway, for us, that thousand-dollar jacket, now we can sell it for under 600 bucks.

Tom: That’s cool.

Randy: And that’s huge. That means we can go toe-to-toe with Burton. That means I’m undercutting Arc’Teryx and we have every bit as good a jacket.

Tom: Sweet. That’s my favorite so far.

Randy: Yeah, so that’s kind of been our angle and we’re hoping that word-of-mouth that it gets out.

Tom: So, for heli-skiers, what do you think are going to be the most popular items that you’re selling?

Randy: See, it depends on if you’re a daily skier or a weekend warrior. The Tantalus Jacket far and away is our best jacket for that sort of experience. We have a lined Tantalus Jacket, which is more the weekend warrior because it’s a little bit warmer, it’s a little bit more comfortable, it feels fuller. But for guides, they don’t like the lining because they’re in it every day and it’s wet.

Cold Smoke's Tantalus Jacket

 

Tom: Yeah, and also for me it’s just not as flexible. I like to wear a base layer and then something long-sleeved and a vest. Take out the vest if you get cold.

Randy: What I would say though is that the lined jacket that I’m talking about is still really thin.

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: It’s not a down…I mean, it’s not an insulated jacket.

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: It’s just got some soft tricot lining.

Tom: Yeah. Yeah.

Randy: It’s softer. It’s a little more comfortable.

Tom: I just prefer a shell. Seems to be more flexible.

Randy: I mean, that’s what our guides do.

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: And then we’ve got the Panel Jacket, which is of the same material, not quite as expensive in terms of pockets and that sort of stuff but similar quality.

 

heli-skiing panel jacket

Imani: And we’ve got the Asymmetric Anorak, which is a little bit more of a stylish take on it but at the same time still works in the backcountry or what have you. It’s pretty much the same thing as a panel but a little bit more fashion-oriented, but still has a power skirt and still has the back tail so you don’t get powder in your pants and what have you. So those are the three top jackets, but then also we have our Down Jacket. We have a Down Vest and Down Jacket as well that I would say competes with the best of them and super-stylish.

Nasak Down Vest (looks like it might be too warm…)

Randy: Yeah, we’ve got like three or four pieces that are just for high-end backcountry access, and then we’ve got some upper ski pieces and more general Everywhere-type stuff.

Tom: Cool.

Imani: We break it down into categories. We call it ECG and DCG. So ECG is our extreme conditions gear and DCG is our daily conditions gear. But in everything that we do we want to have a performance point of view, and so is it something that’s going to work more in the city or is it something that’s going to work on the mountain? What we try and do and one of our mottos is that it’s from the mountains to the city.

Tom: Oh, that’s cool.

Imani: So with everything, we do you can come off the mountain and go into the bar.   If it’s raining or if it’s cold in the city, we’ve got something for you. All the materials that we use are the best from the best manufacturers.

Randy: Oh yeah, we’re producing in Vancouver.

Tom: Oh cool.

Imani: We’re doing it locally and…but…and that’s only because you can now and it’s because the technology’s actually come to the States. I mean, we’re basically in the same shop Arc’Teryx is, and there’s a couple of companies that can now do the seaming technology well.

Imani: But it’s now kind of imported into Vancouver, with a lot of immigrants honestly, and so it’s great. It’s great for us because now it’s a two-hour flight and we’re sitting on our stuff and watching it being made. And I have an office in Whistler that my guys can drive down. So, I mean, it’s super-super-nice.

And it…going back to this whole turnaround, what we’re hoping is to really shorten that part of the model, and there Asym heli-ski jacket from Canadaare certain things that we need in all of our pieces, and that’s the highest end fabric. So those things that have really long lead times will overstock, and then what we’ve done is we’re more selective in how quick we can get it all in town. It’s in Vancouver, and we can do smaller orders and quicker turnaround and different colors, and we take that from six months to a couple of months, and hopefully even shorter.

Tom: That’s cool, and you probably don’t have the crazy litigious environment up there that we have down here, right? As far as Worker’s Comp. and all that jazz.

Randy: Oh yeah. That’s part of it.

Imani: But the factory is really…it’s a clean factory.

Randy: It’s more expensive, don’t get me wrong. And that’s another reason why we have to go on the web? So we can price competitively.

Tom: That’s cool. So I like “from the mountain to the city.” The one I was having a hard time with is “mixing technical performance with the true look and feel inspired by classic military and workwear influences.”

Randy: Well, why are you having a hard time with that?

Tom: I don’t know. Well, what’s a military and work wear influence?

Randy: Well, basically what we’ve done, like if you look at some of the other brands, I don’t want to name brands for an interview, but if you look at kind of the other brands that are popular in the market, it’s the same old thing every year. They just rework it in some kind of way, add a new colorway or whatever, you know, the neon color blocking, etc.

heliskiing vestAnd we’ve actually really worked really hard to actually bring what the inspiration for the line is like actually to fruition in the product. So one of the things that we did with the early mountaineering and military influence, we actually went to a guy in Japan called…his name was Mr. Sakurai and the company’s called Rtec Lab, and they do a lot of stuff for a company in Italy called Stone Island.

And Stone Island is an authentic like military outerwear company out of Italy, and they do a lot of finishing and what have you to bring that look and feel.  So we actually found him and went out there and we actually were able to take our eVent fabrics like three-layer and two-layer, seam-sealed, waterproof breathable product and actually put a technique of finishing on it that made it look like one of the jackets that they first used climbing Mt. Everest. But at the same time, we have the technology and the quality of the jacket today. So no one’s been able to do that and we’re doing that.

Tom: That’s cool.

Randy: That’s pretty cool. It’s like your jeans. Each piece is done separately so it’s personalized. So each one is definitely a little different. So it’s unique in that way. I don’t know how big it’ll be on the mountain. We also make that jacket without doing that so it’s not as expensive, but if someone wants to like me fashionable, we let them be.

Randy: The other piece that actually is my favorite, and we try to bring in a little history or the surroundings in some way – in this last line there was a real influence from the local Indian and Eskimo tribes.

There was a little push through all of our products and our T-shirts that have that sort of thing, and in particular the whole…our high-end jacket, the Tantalus Jacket. The Tantalus name is a glacier that’s on our property up there and when I first brought Imani up to Whistler, before we started designing clothes, he flew and he took pictures of…to try to get an idea, you know, for exactly this reason, trying to get some inspiration, and the Camo is basically right off of those…the coloring of the glacier. So it’s all for a reason.

Imani: And another point, another product to point out, so as Randy said, this trip that we took up to Whistler and in and around Powder Mountain when we went up when we were first starting this, so we got the Tantalus Jacket, which is named on the glacier, but then the other thing that I think that you’d be really interested, since you heli-ski, the helicopter took us on the tour, and it’s Black Tusk.  We actually made a jacket that was inspired by Vietnam helicopter pilots for Black Tusk.

So we did a collaboration with them. So we took the Inuit inspiration of the tribes up there and the Black Tusk being peaked up there in the heli-ski operation. We made a jacket specifically with that in mind.

 

down heliski jacket

Tom:  So what’s a workwear influence? How does that figure in?

Imani: Just from a detail point of view, the type of pockets and, you know…

Tom: Like functional?

Randy: Yeah, and durability.

Imani: Durability. And we do have the DCG, which is the daily conditions skier, so with that, we’ll use like some wax canvases and what have you and kind of go back to some of the old style. There’s a jacket that Randy really loves, which is our fur-lined jacket and it definitely has like a mountaineering, or mountain man I should say mountain…working man’s like a mountain-man-type jacket, you know?

Imani: So that’s where the workwear influence comes from. It’s an aesthetic, you know? And you know, my background coming from what it is.  I think what we really wanted to do is, you know, Randy is really passionate, obviously, a big part of the ski and snow industry, and for me, I grew up snowboarding and skiing as well but not as intense as Randy.

So we grew up together, my design aesthetic with his passions

Tom: And how about the Cold Smoke Film Awards?  Was that another idea like getting the hottest chicks in Whistler?

Randy: Honestly, you’re going to laugh. It was…I mean, it was truly serendipity, dumb luck. It’s truly serendipity here as well. I was, as I said, is I have trademarking everywhere, we were contacted by an attorney out of Bozeman that was concerned about Cold Smoke name being trademarked, and it was actually a number of places in Bozeman, Bridger Bowl which goes on the front…shoot…as you enter the front signs say Land of Cold Smoke or whatever…

Tom: Oh yeah.

Randy: And so the Cold Smoke, but there was in Bozeman some kids out of college started a film festival, more of a labor of love, and they called it the Cold Smoke Awards, and they started this like 10 or 12 years ago. It’s been around for a while. It started as a really small deal and it’s gotten big. And they were…I came across it on the web and them not knowing really who we were, because we didn’t really have our website then and…But they did have a website up and it was impressive, honestly. It was…they, over the course of 10 years, you know, these three guys, and they’re the real deal. I mean, Anjan is filming with TGR or the Sherpas up in the Himalayas at least two or three times a year.

I mean, he’s the real deal. He’s actually the director. It brings in all the films. They’ve been doing this kind of back-of-the-envelope film festival that they got big also. And they have this…their academy awards in Bozeman – they call it Cold Smoke Awards, and it’s great. And they have this huge party. It’s really a reason for a bunch of ski geeks to get together and watch movies and drink beer and enjoy each other’s company. And over time what it’s become to them is not just their passion but something that they want to give back to the community because they want to try to continue to inspire people to make these movies and stuff, and the only way to do that is to get money to them somehow.

How do you do that?  And that’s really their conundrum that they’re working on right now, is how do we build up, how do we get them more resources, more exposure?  So that’s been their mantra. I just happened to fall upon these guys and went, “Oh my God, this is perfect!”

Tom: Yeah, it is perfect.

Randy: This is all over…I mean, this is…you know, I’m not going to find…I already had trademarked the name, so I’m like I didn’t fly there to say you can’t use my name, I flew there to go, “Will you become a part of our community?” And I was able to strike a deal with them. They’re my partners. They’re their separate company. But they live, you know, they do have standalone company budget. They’re under the umbrella, but they have their own mantra. Cold Smoke Apparel is a sponsor.

Tom: Yeah, makes sense.

Randy: And so they want to keep some separation because they don’t want…they’re still going to be able to take in North Face or they could bring in other apparel lines that they want to use as sponsors. They really are a standalone entity in that regard. That said, they want to give back and they get a lot of help from the Cold Smoke mothership. And given that their…we kind of feed off each other I guess is a good way to say it. Everything apparel does to go out to market, the parties we promote, the magazine articles, da da da da, all pull people to our website, which has Cold Smoke Awards on it.

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: So everything we can do to pull more people to them is a good thing. The more people they pull in that happen to come across to apparel is also good.

Tom: Yeah, that’s cool.

Randy: It’s perfect. It basically splits my marketing budget.

[Laughter]

Tom: And what a cool way to solve a potential trademark issue, is to say, “Let’s work together.”

Randy: Yeah, that’s the genius of this.

Tom: Yeah, because usually, the typical first response is to send them a nastygram…

Randy: Right.

Tom: Yeah, from my lawyer and let’s both spend some money we don’t need to.

Imani: Well, for me the really cool thing about all of this, you know, Randy uses the word serendipitous, is that this was…what they do as a kind of…we didn’t talk about building a film awards, you know, between Randy and I, but we talk a lot about content on the website and about interviewing people and creating our own videos and this, that and the other, and it was really cool because now it’s like…now it’s already done.

Randy: Come to us. We don’t need to go out and get it.

Tom: Yeah.

Imani: And not only do we not go out and get it, but we also get the new guys.

Randy: Yeah.

Imani: Because we’re the small shop. They’re the small like under-the-radar guys.

Randy: You know, we still get TGR, we still get the bigger companies, but we also get a couple of guys with GoPro’s that climb some ridiculous ice faces and they’re panting the whole way.  And it’s pretty amazing.

Tom: Yeah, that’s cool.

Randy: Tearjerkers.

Imani: Yeah, tearjerkers.

Randy: The stories and yeah, and there’s more of a push, I mean the guys up there they call it to ski porn. They go, “Okay, so we got to throw in some ski porn so we get those guys to whoop and to holler at the bar.

Tom: Gotcha. And so then what about the Cold Smoke Magazine? Is that…?

Imani: Cold Smoke Magazine was kind of…you know, one of the things that Randy really liked, in the beginning, was the Western Civ Magazine that I was doing, and we wanted to bring that over and transition that concept over to Cold Smoke Apparel, and it’s kind of morphed itself into something all-encompassing. We’re not really going to move forward with the Cold Smoke Magazine at this point, but we are creating our own media, which we’ll have interviews. Like we had Rip Zinger, who’s a snowboarder/surfer-skateboarder. We had a big art show and we did an interview and what have you, which becomes part of our news and our media.

Tom: Cool.

Imani: So we’re continuing with that but it’s…

Tom: But mostly online?

Imani: Yeah.

Randy: Well, I mean, our whole marketing, because we are a startup, I mean we don’t have a ton of money, and just like we did with Powder Mountain we used that whole guerilla marketing, you know, we used “sex sells.”

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: And so we threw parties and we’d get some hot models to show up and we get into other blogs and stuff because we have people show up. I mean, we started throwing these little parties and it was…it’s such a great…because we had fun doing it too, on top of it all, it’s like it’s the best of both worlds.

Tom: Year before last I had an opportunity to do a shoot with Playboy Bunnies going to a heli-ski place, and I was just jumping out of my clothes. Yeah, I talked to maybe a dozen different heli operators and they all said, “Oh yeah, yeah, we can do that!” [Laughs]

Imani: “Oh yeah, yeah, please, please!”

Randy: What I think Tom is like brilliant about this whole thing is, number one, Imani coming from being a very successful businessman in general and then coming to do this as his passion, he’s been able to bring together some great talent including myself, um, [laughs]…

Tom: Yeah.

Imani: Um, you know from the apparel side, you know, from Powder Mountain Heli-Skiing and the Cold Smoke guys, and what I feel like is happening here, we call it the Cold Smoke collective, but we’re creating a lifestyle that a lot of brands like in the surf and the skate industries have done for years and they’ve been very successful at it. But I don’t think to develop a snowboard culture in my style. And I think…but I think what we’re doing is taking you to the next level, you know, all the different arms that Randy has and bringing all of those together to create a real lifestyle, I mean like I mentioned the art shows and, you know, we’re bringing people into the culture that it’s not just about—what does Danny Kass do when he’s not snowboarding? You know, we’re talking about that. we’re creating apparel for that guy who’s…he’s a snowboarder, he’s a skier, he’s ride or die, but at the same time he’s got life off the mountain, and we’re creating a lifestyle around all of that.

Tom: So that’s cool. Something in there reminded me of a funny story. I knew a guy who invested in Nixon.  He went to visit them and after the tour of the shop and everything he said, “Hey, how about a little swag? You got a shirt or a hat or something?”  Now the investor was in his 30s, windsurfer, heliskier, snowboarder – yeah, he’s not a Barney.  But the Nixon guys looked at him and said, “Hmm, sorry dude, you’re really not the right demographic.” [Laughs]

[Laughter]

Tom: He said, “We can’t have you wearing our brand around if you’re not hip, you know.”

Imani: Wow. [Laughs]

Tom: And he was an owner of the company.  That’s some serious brand management there. [Laughs]

Randy: Amazing!

Tom: Hey, we didn’t talk about pants. I wanted to make sure to talk about pants. Do you do bibs or pants or both?

Imani: Not now.  You know, we wanted to focus on being the best at something and doing it the right way.

Randy: Yeah, I want to be the best at a few things rather than good at a lot of things.

Tom: I think that’s fantastic. I salute that. And it’s funny, the guys I mentioned before, Trew Gear, their thing is bibs. They say, “Well, we make the best bibs and we make jackets too, but that’s kind of what we want to be known for.”

Randy: Yeah, we’re venturing out with a piece here and a piece there…

Tom: Well, also, I might wear my jacket out to the city but I’m not [laughs] going to wear my bibs. It’s a much narrower market, right?

Imani: But moving into fall 2014-15, so next fall, not this one, we’re going to have women’s.

Imani: Well, we’re going to have women’s for spring, but snowboard pants, ski pants for 2014-15.

Randy: Something probably a little more stylish. I mean, you see some of the more European…and we won’t go…we won’t be North Face or whatever and just be a really high technical piece. I’m sure we’ll add some flair to it for the women.

Tom: You know, I just checked out the Marmot shell and I liked it very much.

Randy: Yeah, they’re a high-quality piece too.

Tom: Yeah, vis–à–vis North Face, for example.

Randy: They first came out, if you remember, they were the Arc’teryx. I mean, they were the new shit and… and they were like pushing that technical button, and they hadn’t stayed on it very well, I don’t think, from a marketing perspective but…

Tom: Yeah, I thought this jacket looked pretty good but yeah, I agree, they’re kind of a second-tier player it seems like. You got to look pretty hard to find them.

Randy: I think they are. I mean, I haven’t really gone through their stuff, but they were always considered a super-nice piece.

Tom: Yeah. So I was in San Francisco last weekend and had some time to kill, so those two shops were right next to each other and I went and checked them out.

Randy: North Face and Marmot?

Tom: Yeah. And I didn’t care for the North Face. I thought the Marmot was pretty cool.

Randy: Yeah. I mean, back in my day, back in Alaska back in the early eighties, I mean North Face was the shit.

Tom: Yeah.

Randy: They built the best-quality stuff. I mean, there was Bogner.

Tom: Obermeyer.

Randy: Obermeyer.

Tom: I windsurf with that dude near Aspen.

Randy: I think it was…had Spider come out yet? Maybe.

Tom: It’s funny how they go through cycles.

Randy: Yeah. No, I mean, North Face, I still have pieces that I bought back then that it fit me, you know, I could wear. I mean, they probably smell a little bit but I mean they’re amazing. That stuff lasts forever.

Tom: Are you guys going to make any layers or anything other than outerwear?

Imani: We are. We’ve got mid layer, base layer, outerwear. We currently have that. We’ve got a removable lining inside, soft shell.

Tom: Oh, cool.

Imani: So we’ve got…we’re running the gamut. Like Randy said, as we move into spring, into next fall, we are expanding on the product line and we’re figuring out how we could be, um, you know, we can outfit like the guides and our customer completely when they’re on the mountain or when they’re just out in the elements. So another one, another tagline I’ll give you is “become one with your environment.” That’s another one that we use.

Tom: Oh. That’s like everybody’s long-term goal, too. You’ll end up in the ground, becoming one with the environment, literally. [Laughs]

[Laughter]

Tom: That’s a goal I’m sure I can achieve! [Laughs]

Imani: But yes, we have a base layer, mid layer, and outer layer.

Tom: Cool, because I wear my ski base layers out on my bike when it’s cold.

Imani: Exactly.

Tom: They serve a lot of purposes.

Imani: And we’re working with Polartec on a lot of our base layer stuff.  So we’re making sure that we’re working with the best materials and we’re working with the best factories like Randy said. One of the things that he said that I’ll never forget is, “Burton gives Powder Mountain a product for the guides to wear.” And I was like, “Well, what are we going to do? They’re wearing Burton. We want them to Cold Smoke.” And he said, “Well if it’s good, they’ll wear it.”

Tom: That’s exactly right. That’s like…I’m trying to remember the…now they can’t rent videos anymore, was Hollywood and Blockbuster. And the guy who started Blockbuster, he put his stores across from every Hollywood he could find, and the idea was, “If we can’t kick their ass, we’re straight across the street, then we’re going to lose long-term.” So I thought that was a cool approach.

Randy: Right!

Tom: So anything else you want to promote, anything else you want to feature, products you want to talk about?

Randy: No, that’s about it.

Tom: Alright, cool. Well, guys, I appreciate your time. It’s great to get to know you.

Imani: Definitely. [00:54:57] You should send us your information, we can send you over so gear.

Tom: Yeah, your PR person has promised me gear, so I am looking forward to that.

Imani: Okay.

Tom: And I’ll reciprocate with some great HELISKI.com hats.

Imani: Cool. Thank you. So when you do your next Skype meeting with Burton you can wear the Cold Smoke hat.

[Laughter]

Tom: Great idea. I have some dude transcribe these and then I’ll put them up on the web in text. Do you want to look at it before I post it?

Randy: It doesn’t matter.

Tom: Okay. Well, if it says anything too scary incriminating I’ll x it out, but if you think of something else that you wanted to mention just fire me an email.

Randy: Thank you, Tom. Alright.

Tom: Cool. Alright. Nice talking to you guys.

Randy: Have a good day.

Tom: Alright, see you.

HELISKI.com Gear Interview: TREW GEAR Heliskiing Apparel is “Technylish”

HELISKI.com Gear Interview: TREW GEAR Heliskiing Apparel is “Technylish”

Continuing our Heliski Gear Interview Series with a new company from my old stomping ground – Hood River, Oregon in the Columbia River Gorge.  Tripp Frey, Co-Founder/CEO of TREW GEAR and I skyped about their innovative technylish apparel.  Enjoy.

Tom (TJ): So what’s the best thing going for heli-skiers out of your TRUE GEAR line, the Cosmic?

TREW Heliskiiing Jacket - COSMICTREW Heli-skiing jacket back

Tripp: You know, it just depends.  It’s more like a personal preference thing.  Yeah, I mean the bibs are awesome.

Tom: Yeah?   I love the name, TREWTH Ski Bibs

heliskiing bibs trewthTREWTH heliski bibsF13_TREWTH_GRY_FRONT F13_TREWTH_CAMO_FRONT F13_TREWTH_BRWN_FRONT

Tripp: You know, that was kind of our flagship product and that’s what I would be like, the bibs are where you want to be, because if you’re going to take a digger you’re going to have protection from all the snow and it’s not going to be down your pants. And it’s a super-fabric, which is really great for getting it out in the heli, and scuff guards against your skis and all that kind of stuff.

Tom:  Which jacket is best for heliskiing?

Tripp:  On the jacket side, it’s kind of more personal preference, you know. The Cosmic [above]  is kind of sleek and simple, whereas the Bellows [bellow] has like a lot of storage. So if you’re trying to bring a lot of stuff with you, then maybe the Bellows is your go-to…

heli-ski jackethelicopter skiing jacketheli skiing jacketheli ski jacket

heliskiing trew          heli-skiing canada jacket       heliskiing canada jacket       heliski bc canada jacket

Tom: I think it might be because sitting here my only complaint about this one is that I don’t really have a good goggle pocket. There’s not someplace I can get in and out of it.

Tripp: Yeah.

Tom: And in the helicopter, you get about a minute and a half from when you get in and get your seatbelt on to change from goggles to glasses or vice-versa or wipe off your goggles and that kind of stuff. So it’s got to be close, it’s got to be easy, and really almost all the shells don’t have a big enough pocket.

Tripp: You’re looking for storage, the Bellows is your one, and if you’re looking for kind of like the really progressive jacket that’s going to combine the…you know, it’s really going to embody technylish, it’s the Pow Funk. It’s kind of the most stylish, youthful that’s, you know, progressive colors.  Same material. You know, it’s all the same material.

bc heliski jacket F13_POWFUNK_CP_FRONT F13_POWFUNK_BR_FRONT

Tom: Alright. So how do you distribute? How do people get Trew gear heliskiing apparels?

Tripp: Good question. We have about 50 dealers around North America, and so you can visit or try to find a local retailer, and of course you can always find us on our website , trewgear.com.  We sell gear off our website. We have online partners like backcountry.com, where you can also get our product.

Tom: You were talking about how you got into this business.

Tripp: Yeah, sure. Um, well, I moved to Hood River (OR) to work for another small little company that maybe you’re familiar with called Shred Alert.

Tom: Oh, sure, I know Heather.

Tripp: And I got to know Heather, who owned it, through a friend. And so I was just finishing grad school and came out here to work for her. Kind of had like an entrepreneurial edge, wanted to work for a small company and try to grow or do something on my own. And so I came here, worked for her—I didn’t know anyone—and I’ve just always been a passionate outdoors person, skier particularly.

But I only worked there for about six months, and then the entrepreneurial interest was too strong and so strong I called up two really good friends who were twin brothers, John and Chris Pew. They moved out here. And we kind of had this vision for technical apparel that could be done a little bit differently, and that was kind of our only kind of guiding light. And then we just felt like, “Let’s use the top-of-the-line materials, but let’s design it from a little bit of a different perspective. Let’s focus on durability. Let’s focus on utility in terms of storage and having a lot of storage options. Let’s focus on colors and making the jackets aesthetically beautiful.” And so, just kind of rethinking…although less design for pure alpinism and a little bit more design for just skiing and snowboarding.

Tom: Yeah, yeah.

Tripp: So, it might weigh a few ounces more, “Okay, fine, maybe you’re not taking on Everest. Okay.”

Tripp: But for your everyday use of inbound, side-country and hut trips, heli-skiing – it’s going to be more than sufficient. It’s going to be ideal, kind of the ‘quiver killer.’

Tom: Yeah, I like that. And it’s kind of a lower price point than, I don’t know, Arc’Teryx or some super-premium. Is that part of the philosophy or you’re right on par, do you think?

Tripp: Well, I mean I think our goal is to offer similar quality and construction techniques and fabrics.   We don’t use Gore, and that’s pretty much the driver of the really high price points, is just that we don’t use Gore. We don’t necessarily believe that Gore is any better than anything else. I mean, I think from a performance standpoint, obviously they have done a remarkable job of marketing their brand and people recognize it and have recognition from both manufacturing and the end consumer.

Tom: That’s funny. It’s like Windows is to computers for an analogy – it’s that you pay a big premium for an OS that’s not great.   So the price of the box is way more than it should be.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think Gore-Tex is a good product too, but I actually think the best analogy is Intel. Intel has…you know, Gore-Tex, you don’t know what it looks like. It’s like a processor – you have no idea what it looks like, but when you walk into Best Buy you’re like, “Oh, I have an Intel processor. Must be the best.”  But you have no idea. You never see it. You don’t…you can’t… You just…it’s a component that no one sees and understands and they market it really well.

Tom: I agree with you, and I’m an Intel is my alma mater.

Tripp: Alright.

Tom: Yeah. There are a bunch of guys out there in the Gorge that are ex-Intel.

Tripp: Right, right.

Tom: Well, that’s interesting. I never thought about Gore driving up the price. It’s kind of like, in the world of audio…I can think of another analogy, but now let’s move on. It sounds like you’re pretty busy and I want to keep moving.

Tripp: Oh, no worries.

Tom: But I think Mt. Hood is a great place to test and refine clothing. And just a quick aside, I remember on a snowboard one day standing on the edge of a little precipice, and the wind was blowing so hard it blew me backwards up the hill.

Tripp: No joke.   On those winter storms, it’s like 70 MPH winds or more.

Tom: Yeah, and biting cold, a little bit heavier snow than some places, and it’s look like a moonscape. I was looking at one of your team riders and she’s standing up on what…I guess it’s Mt. Baker, but it looks like Hood, everything just covered in ice. It’s a gnarly environment, so I’m sure it’s a great place to design and test clothes.

Tripp: Yeah, it is. We get to experience a variety of weather conditions relatively close to home, everything from rain to heavy snow, and you get up high you get tons of wind. And over here we get a couple of really dry storms. We get it all, and now that we’re kind of expanding our product line.  Our heritage is in kind of the technical shells. But our product line has expanded and now we have like this, which is like a synthetic insulated garment, which is a really cool take. It’s a fully reversible and really technical piece, but done a bit differently. And you know, performance – soft shell, so it has new pieces that we’ve kind of been working on that we debuted this year. So yeah, it’s a great place to kind of test all of these things out.

soft shell heliski jacket

Cool Soft Shell – Wyeast

Tom: Cool, yeah. I got one of your soft shells [WYEAST, above, which I love], but the hard shell for heli-skiing is the sweet spot for me.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

Tom: And so do you have a powder clause? Like how much snow do you have to get on Hood before you’re allowed to take the morning off and go make turns?

Tripp: Well, we’re still pretty small little company and there’s the three of us who founded it with one other guy, and we don’t really have a policy other than going on and using gear is of value. So, you know, every day is probably not good, but when it’s good get up there and for sure.

Tom: I hear you. That’s like me with heli-skiing – I got to, I don’t have a choice.  It’s my job.

Tripp: Yeah, it’s a rough life.

Tom: And so I guess I didn’t know the Shred Alert connection in the era. Shred Alert spinoff – that sort of cracks me up.

Your design philosophy, you mentioned you do it differently, and that’s differently as in the attributes you mentioned, which were the technical yet maybe a little bit more stylish?

Tripp: You know, we have this word that we use, “Technylish,” which is technical and stylish.

Tom: I love it.

Tripp: It’s kind of one of our approaches, technylish.  Again, I mean, I think our lack of a background in technical garments has pros and cons, but when we sit down and think about a garment we don’t have the pedigree that someone who worked or has training in apparel construction who went to school for it and has worked at a big company, so we kind of just think more about what does our customer want and what do we want. And someone who had years of training might say, “Well, we can’t do that because we can’t have this price point and we can’t…you know, this is going to use too much fabric here and that doesn’t make any sense…”

It’s just when you’re free of the paradigms of someone who has a background in working in a big company with a lot of structure, we think it allows your outfit to kind of be a little bit more creative.

Tom: I think you’re exactly right. I remember at Intel when they went from the 486 to the Pentium they took a completely new team. So they didn’t use anybody who had designed in the 486 era because they wanted to avoid people saying, “Oh, you can’t do that. You can’t do it this way,” or, “That won’t work,” you know?

They wanted a fresh start, which to me, for a company that big literally betting the company on that, is mind-blowing, but I like the approach.

Tripp: Of course there are downsides and that’s that unforseen consequences of doing certain things and stuff not always working out how you envisioned it, but I think for the most part it’s a positive more than a negative.

Tom: Cool. And do you take a look at competitors? Like you’ve got Columbia sort of a neighbor here, but Columbia Acr’Teryx, North Face, the usual suspects. Do you get one of each of their jackets like an auto manufacturer does and kind of deconstruct it or see what they’ve done or are you literally starting with a blank slate?

Tripp: Um, no. We definitely obviously keep our pulse on the competitive landscape. We do a couple of other things. One, we look at like…we try to look at different information in terms of what product categories are selling well, which would be like this. So this is like the synthetic…like the Patagonia, Nano is probably their bestselling piece.

They don’t…no one really sells that many technical shells. So this is where you got to get your volume up and you got to start doing stuff. So we look at kind of like high-level, kind of what categories are doing well, but then within a category and where we’re looking at a particular piece, yeah, we definitely like deconstruct and buy other stuff. We’d borrow other people’s gear and take a look at it, deconstruct it.  And try to learn about like what people are doing and think that we can do better.

And we’re like, “Well, what if we did that?” “Yeah, for sure.” “What if we did that?” We put our little spin on it.

Tom: So is there kind of a larger market? I’m sure you look at the market in terms of volume. I’m guessing that there’s a wannabe segment of people who want to look like they’re technical, but when they go to the mall in their four-wheel drive that they never take to the mountains… So is that a big kind of sweet-spot target or is that not part of your thinking?

Tripp: No, it is. I mean, we design our products for our core customer, and hopefully by default there are people who see that and they’re like, “Ooh, I want to be that person,” and they wear our new jacket around town.

Tom: Yeah. That’s a cool logo by the way.

Tripp: Yeah, thanks. I don’t know how anyone does…or why anyone else didn’t trademark it, but they hadn’t, so.

Tom: I love the name too, actually. You know, at this point, I have a domain name company [nameboy.com] and I know how hard it is to get a domain, let alone a trademarkable, recognizable term, so it’s cool.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah, , and…I’m the T-R in Trew, and then the two guys that I work with, their last name is Pew, P-E-W, so we’re kind of Tripp and Pew put together.

Tom: Wow.  Because these days I’m seeing so many brands that are just kind of a different spelling on a recognizable term, you know, for brandability, trademarkability. So you got both going. That’s cool.

Tripp: Yeah, so.

Tom: Do you guys…you think you have a snowboard bias at Trew?

Tripp: No.  We probably sell 80% to skiers.

Tom: Oh really?  I mean, heli-boarding, not snowboarding.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah. Ah, no. We’re definitely trying to do both.

Tom: I feel like Hood had a higher percentage of boarders than a lot of mountains. Do you think that’s true or not really?

Tripp: Mmm, I don’t know how many…I don’t know.

Tom: Cool. You should hit up some of the—just unsolicited advice—hit up some of the heliskiing operators and see if they would put their guides in your gear.

Tripp: Well, we do sponsor one heli operator.

Tom: Oh. Who’s that?

Tripp: Skeena.

Tom: Oh, no kidding.

Tripp: Up in Smithers.

Tom: Sure, I have skied with Skeena Heliskiing!

Tripp: And so we provide them with their outfits, and then they buy some stuff to sell in their store.

Tom: That’s amazing. I wonder if maybe that’s how I ended up finding you guys, because I know Jake reasonably well.

Tripp: Oh, you do? Yeah.

Tom: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve been there. Have you skied with him?

Tripp: No.

Tom: You should hit him up.

Tripp: Yeah, we are getting a couple of seats.   Another thing we’re doing this year is we have this RV that we bought when we first started going. So we converted into a mobile store.  So the RV’s going around to dealers in the industry events and stuff, and one of the big…the big promotion running is if you spend 100 dollars on the RV your email gets in a raffle to win a free week of heli-skiing with Skeena.

Tom: And does the website tell you where the mobile store is going to be?

Tripp: Yup, there’s a counter in there kind of updated…you know, we’re trying to keep it fresh and updated, things we’re trying to change a little bit, but yeah, if you just go there it’s trewgear.com/tour.

Tom: So who drives that thing around?

Tripp: We kind of all do but we hired a guy to do it for the winter – between now and middle of January.

Tom: Yeah, like if he’s going to go from Jackson Hole to Telluride, “I’ll see you there.”

Tripp: Yeah, he just drives and we meet him up along the way.

Tom: That’s the way to go. It’s like a rock star tour where you just…you fly the jet and you meet the crew there with all the stuff.

Tripp: That’s right.

Tom: And does it go to ski resorts, like you would see it at a resort hanging out?

Tripp: Yeah, I mean, we’re going to kind of figure that out a little bit. I mean, you know, right now there’s no resorts – we’re just kind of going to dealers. So we’re pretty much going to be in the Northwest for this next month, and then we’re going to be in the Bay Area actually in middle of November.

We’ll be in Tahoe and Reno, and then Salt Lake, and then Colorado, Jackson Hole, Sun Valley, and then that’ll be kind of it.

Tom: That’s cool. I can get those dates out to our list and see if people will show up to meet you there. That’d be cool.

Tripp: Yeah. It’s such and interesting area, such a huge city and there’s like two or three shops that are like good shops. Lombardi’s is the one that we want to be in, probably.  California’s a weird place. [you can say that again]  There’s not a lot of independent shops anymore.

Tom: It is a weird place for that.  There’s also a great shop in Berkeley, California Ski Company, who really kind of specializes in boots but they sell gear, and I think they’re pretty good.

Tripp: Right. Yeah, there’s just not a lot of independent shops and it’s kind of like a strange situation.

Tom:  Your website says, “When geopolitical instability drives you deep into the mountains to live off the land and shred glades of private pow, the TREWTH is the only bib you’ll need.”    Who writes that stuff?  That is classic.

Tripp: Yeah. We work with this guy—he lives in Park City—who does all of our copy.

Tom: It’s just hilarious. So what’s been the hardest part about starting a brand and getting it up and going?

Tripp: Um, my, good question. A lot of things.

Tom: I actually know Chip Wilson, who started Lululemon, and I remember the manufacturing was a huge challenge because he needed money and he needed sizeable orders, he was having it done in far-off places that you had to go visit, and it was kind of a big deal.

Tripp: That’s the biggest challenge for sure, is manufacturing. It’s getting the things you want from a faraway place, and it’s the hardest thing. And you think you ought to go just kind of like give them all these specs, and they ought to be able to just whip it up.  But no.  It just takes so much effort to like oversee it…

Tom: Yeah. Distance, language, culture, money, all that stuff.

Tripp: Yeah. Yeah.

Tom: Timing. What’s been the most fun part of it?

Tripp: The most fun thing is, well, that’s a good question. I mean, obviously being out there and spending time on the mountain in the gear that you make and have people recognize that it works is a pretty darn good feeling. But I think…so that’s like, on an instinctual level, that’s the best, that’s the best feeling, is when you’re like out there using your gear and you’re like, “This is so cool.”

Tom: That is cool.

Tripp: But, you know, it’s nice to know that we’re building a brand, and we’re all really committed to growing this company and getting it…keep building. We’re still a small little company. Yet somehow we managed to create the illusion that we’re some grand huge thing.

Tom: I think that’s the goal of all startups, right? I call it Operation Blowfish where you try to look like you’re much bigger than you really are.

Tripp: Yeah, so…yeah, I think we’ve done a really good job of that and… But it’s really cool to see a brand that resonates and, you know, can keep putting out products that people want.

Tom: Yeah, that’s cool. And do you get any product feedback from Jake [Skeena Heliskiing] and his guys about the gear?

Tripp: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, we got a whole, you know, long email, maybe an attached document with all kinds of feedback.

Tom: Oh, that’s cool. He’s a great guy. Have you skied with him?

Tripp: No, haven’t.

Tom: I’ve skied with a lot of great skiers – he’s probably the best I’ve ever skied with.

Tripp: Really?

Tom: Unbelievable, yeah. I mean, for 15 years in Europe he raced moguls, and so his technique is flawless, fast, smooth. The guy is just amazing.

Tripp: I got to try to get up there.

Tom: You do have to go up there. One of the problems is he’s always booked. I mean, he’s…I almost never send anybody to Jake because by the middle of summer booked with Europeans, because he draws from that same market that he used to live in.

Tripp: Uh-huh.

Tom: And I’ll bet right now he’s got one week with any availability in the whole season.  Maybe hit him up for cancellations because you could hop up there pretty easily from Oregon.

Tripp: Yeah, we gave him gear and he’ll give us a couple of seats, but I just kind of got to be ready to make a move real quick and get up there.

Tom: Yeah. You have to be in shape. They ski fast.  Europeans don’t mess around.

Tom: So what else do you do for fun? You’re a kiteboarder?

Tripp: Kiteboarder, mountain biker, runner, and yeah, those are kind of my standard for the Gorge [Hood River Gorge, Oregon/Washington]

Tom: Yeah, it is. I was a windsurfer, a dinosaur now, but mountain biking, and I swam, I didn’t run, but I’ve just skied too many bumps, I guess.

Tripp: Mm-hmm.

Tom: So what about neon? Back in the day we used to say, “Friends don’t let friends wear dayglow,” but now it seems to be coming back.

Tripp: Um, yeah, that’s coming back a little bit. Like this year’s line we’ve featured a little like, some neon zippers and stuff.  Nothing too crazy, just kind of like little hits. I think all of the stuff is so cyclical, you know.  It just comes and goes. It’ll come back.

Tom: So I wonder how you figured that out then, like what are you designing next winter stuff?

Tripp: Oh, next winter stuff has already been designed six months, seven months ago.

Tom: I mean, 2014-15 stuff?

Tripp: Yeah, seven months ago.

Tom: No kidding?

Tripp: Were early, and we’re even behind. We’re slow at the most.

Tom: A year and a half in advance?

Tripp: Easily.

Tom: Wow, that’s amazing.

Tripp: This industry is really challenging. I mean, that’s one of the biggest things, is I don’t think many people… there’s not many startups. There’s not that many startups in technical apparel because if you spend any time doing it you realize how difficult it is.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: There are enormous lead times with raw materials and production takes an extremely long time, and so yeah, you have to have your sample order in by May so that they can have samples here in the fall so you could take them to your dealers, because you have to get orders from Northeast and Patagonia and Marmot their orders with their retailer…retailers have to have their orders in by December 1st basically for the following season.

Tom: Wow. What if you miss it? What if you come out with neon and that year everybody’s out of neon and you’re…is the whole company at risk?

Tripp: Yeah. It’s very difficult to try to figure all that out and, you know, a lot of these retailers.  It’s December and they haven’t even sold for the winter. They have no idea what’s selling, what’s not. I mean, it’s just a real…it’s a conundrum, the whole supply chain is slow and I think the people who can mix that up…and we’re trying to figure out a way to kind of shake that up. Selling more direct, selling more off of the website is one way to kind of combat that, because you can sell for cheaper, because you don’t have to build wholesale margins.

Tom: And…I mean that must be challenging in a couple of ways because if you cut out the retailer, then you’ll kill them off or lose them. So is that kind of a balancing act?

Tripp: Yeah, totally. I mean, you can’t do both. You can’t sell product direct off a website and at a low price and then also try to sell it retail. You have to choose.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: But, you know, the web is not going away, so.

Tom: Yeah, I know…

Tripp: Retailers who try to fight the web are fighting a losing battle.

Tom: And so at what point do you have to have the money to make the order?

Tripp: It depends. Everyone…I’m sure it’s all different with different organizations, and if you’re maybe more stylish you get better terms from your factories and stuff.  Typically, it’s 50% upon placing a purchase order, and then 50% upon ship.

Tom: And then are you able to borrow that from the bank like a line of credit?

Tripp: Yup.

Tom: Yeah. And where did your startup money come from?

Tripp: Mostly just friends and family.

Tom: Yeah? That’s cool. They’re probably happy now, eh?

Tripp: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said we’re a small little company still.  We’re not rolling in it.  I promise you that.

Tom: Yeah. Are you still looking for money then, like to go…?

Tripp: No, now we’re not.

Tom: It seems to be a constant struggle – as soon as you close one round, you have to start thinking about the next one. So it’s not nice that you’re not consumed by that. I’ve done a bunch of startups and it just seems to be the way to go – as soon as you close one round you start thinking, “Alright, our next horizon is six months out and we have to have these things done by then,” and that sort of thing.

Tripp: Yeah. Yeah, no, thankfully we’re kind of in a spot where now we’re okay. Well, we’ll see. You know, we’re all trying to grow our business a lot in the next couple of years and it’s going to require some more capital somehow probably.

Tom: Yeah, and a lot of companies can succeed themselves to death when they run out of cash.  How about production? I guess the only one that I’m all that familiar with is Arc’teryx. They seem to have a limited production. Like if you go try to order something in August-September, a lot of the good stuff in the colors that you want is already sold out.

Tripp: What do you mean, off their website?

Tom: Yeah, and so I wonder, is it a conscious decision they make to not end up with leftover inventory at the end year, they’d rather make it a little harder to get a hold of and not have anything left over, than they would build a whole bunch extra that may end up sitting around?

Tripp: Yeah. I mean, that’s smart. I mean, yeah, I don’t know…I know they do sell direct off their website but I’m not sure…you know, that’s the whole point of getting these preseason orders in December is so you make to order.

Tom: Yeah. Maybe it’s the pro deals. They only allocate so much for the pro deals.

Tripp: Oh yeah, they probably do limit the pro deal. I mean, if you’re looking at their process, they probably offer certain things depending on availability.

Tom: That makes sense. I’m curious, do you end up with stuff at the end of the year that you sell at Overstock or somewhere like that?

Tripp: The goal is no, but yeah, we typically do a little bit. Yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: Most companies do. Managing your inventory is just so hard.

Tom: Yeah. And who decides what stuff you’re going to build and in what quantities? Like do you guys have discussions internally where you say, “I love this jacket,” and another guy says, “No, that one’s never going to sell,” and how do you decide how much of a commitment to make to that?

Tripp: Oh, we look at preseason buy.  We have a forecasting model that we plug stuff into and it gives us kind of like bell curves on sizes and based on what people are ordering, and we look at like past year’s information in terms of what sold and kind of try to equate what colors would,, “Okay, the brown from last year is equivalent to like the green this year, that one did this well, and so forth.

Tom: Damn, that sounds like an interesting challenge.

Tripp: It is.

Tom: There’s a lot of guesstimating going on.

Tripp: Very true.

Tom: So what has been the bestseller for you guys so far?

Tripp: The bib, for sure.

Tom: Yeah?

Tripp: Yeah. It’s kind of our flagship product. When we first came out with it, no one was doing a  full-on technical free-ride bib, and now everyone is doing it.

Tom: Yeah, they seemed to be just kind of bags with suspenders on them, and back in the day there was nothing to them.

Tripp: Yeah.

Tom: Like pockets and they didn’t have much in the way of features and all that. Now they’re super-high-tech.

Tripp: Now they are feature-rich for sure.

Tom: The one I ski in has kneepads, believe it or not, sewn in so when you’re kneeling to get in and out of the chopper there’s more comfy.

Tripp: Oh, excellent.

Tom: But I think that’s probably not a feature that a lot of people are going to buy.

Tripp: Who makes them?

Tom: Arc’teryx.

Tripp: They make a heli-specific pant?.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: Okay.

Tom: Yeah, and a guide jacket. Yeah. Again, it’s not a feature… Might be a good feature for the girls’ bib. [Laughs]

Tripp: We make a women’s bib, I’ll have to think about that.

Tom: I’ll work on the name.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah. You come up with a name.  We sell the Chariot bib but we can do a spinoff of that.

Tom: [Laughs] Chariot?

Tripp: That’s the name of our women’s bib.

womens heli-skiing bibs F13_CHARIOT_GRY_BACK F13_CHARIOT_EMD_FRONT F13_CHARIOT_EMD_BACK F13_CHARIOT_CNY_FRONT F13_CHARIOT_CNY_BACK F13_CHARIOT_BLK_FRONT F13_CHARIOT_BLK_BACK

Tom: Okay. I’ll work on that. [Laughs] I’m sitting down picturing the logo kind of redone in a way that would be more provocative as well.

Tripp: Right. Okay. Let’s see where you’re going with that…..

F13_THUMB_T_BLK F13_THUMB_T_GLD heliskiing logo TREW

Tom: [Laughs]

Tripp: Nice.

TREW GEAR Team Rider Shawnie Rasking gives the TREW thumbs up

Tom: I crack myself up. So let me see if I have any other interesting to ask you, because I digress. Oh, so have you ever been heli-skiing or heli-boarding?

Tripp: Well, I have, yeah.

Tom: Where did you go?

Tripp: Ah, went with SEABA in Haines, Alaska.

Tom: Oh, how was that?

Tripp: Yeah, well, amazing.

Tom: Alaska, man. Tell me, what was your reaction to it?

Tripp: It’s just…it’s unbelievable, the beauty, the mountains. I mean, it just really is remarkable and spectacular.

Tom: It is.

Tripp: And skiing when it’s…I mean, I spent a bunch of time in British Columbia on hut trips and stuff, heli and hut trips. And, I don’t know, I’m not sure what’s better, but Alaska or British Columbia has the best skiing on the planet. I’ve never skied in Europe but, yeah, there really is something else in…Just when you get up in the heli and you get up high and you can see the ice fields and just as far as you can see just massive peaks, and then you have the ocean and it’s just really incredible.

Tom: Isn’t that amazing? I have the same feeling. It is truly spectacular.  The scenery alone, it just seems like everything’s on a bigger scale.  In addition to that, it’s steep as hell, right?

Tripp: Yeah.

Tom: They probably take you to some stuff that just scares you.

Tripp: Oh yeah.

Tom: I remember standing on a peak where it wasn’t big enough for all of us to put our skis on at the same time. We had to take turns.

Tripp: Really?

Tom: And then you look all around and I couldn’t tell which way we were going down. It all looked like certain death to me. It was just amazing! And they can you stuff as steep as you want. It’s awesome.

Tripp: Yeah. No, I had the time of my life. I’ve started saving up my pennies to go to that again.

Tom: Cool. I just interviewed a guy with a new operation up there that sounded pretty cool – Black Ops.

Tripp: Yeah?

Tom: Yeah, that’ll be out, I don’t know, we’ll see in a couple of days. Hopefully the interview will be done.  But yeah, I know a bunch of the guys up there, so if you go again I’ll be happy to give you advice.

Tripp: Sweet, yeah. I just kind of met the SEABA guys, through friends of friends and met Sunny and a couple of other guys and stuff, it was an amazing trip.

Tom: Cool. Anyplace else? You said heli and hut trips, so they drop you at the beginning of the week and then come get you?

Tripp: Yup. I mean, up in Canada I’ve been in Fairy Meadows Hut, I’ve been to Ice Fall and to Swordshore.  All are heli in, so you get…yeah, for a week, you know?

Tom: Cool.

Trip: Then you tour for the whole week.

Tom: Yeah, that’s more hardcore. You don’t have as much gray hair as I do.

Tripp: I’ve started working on it…

F13_EAGLE_BLK_FRONTheli ski pant F13_EAGLE_FRONT_GLD F13_EAGLE_CAMO_FRONT

heliskiing pants TREW

TREW Eagle Heliski Pant

Tom: Cool. And so where do you like to go kiting?

Tripp: I love the Coast. I mean, around here, I prefer to go up the Coast than actually the Gorge, to be honest with you.

Tom: Uh-huh.

Tripp: I like Roosevelt if I’m going to kite the Gorge out East, but I’ve traveled, um, not recently but between five and eight years ago I went to Brazil three times.

Tom: Oh wow.

Tripp: And I’ve just been down there for a week many times and amazing kiteboarding down there. Amazing windsurfing too.

Tom: Cool.

Tripp: I like to getback to a warm-weather spot.

Tom: Yeah, I heli-skied with a guy who has set up his own kiteboarding school down in Texas…

Tripp: South Padre Island, probably.

Tom: Yeah, and he has like helmets with a microphone and headphones built in and he’s got built in two-way radio, chase…

Tripp: Jet skis, yeah.  It’s a good place to learn, actually. I’ve been there a couple of times as well.

Tom: It’s shallow, right?

Tripp: Yeah, shallow. That’s a big thing for kiting. Same thing probably windsurfing, so you can stand up…if you end up downwind, you can stand up and walk back up, walk to the beach and you’re not just like flopping around in the water.

Tom: Yeah, like the Outer Banks (North Carolina) same thing.

Tripp: Yeah.

Tom: So have you guys thought about doing any crossover? I remember meeting the Da Kine founder, Rob, who had at the time of 350 SKUs. Anytime they see a problem, like they invent a little doodad to fix it. Have you thought about crossing over into summer or water sports?

Tripp: Um, a little bit but not really. I mean, we’re just trying to expand kind of our winter line and encompass kind of more lifestyle wearability, you know? Like the skis, you know, just like performance soft shells, and then next year we have like…we’re really expanding this part of our line. The stuff that people wear on a day-to-day basis, it’s not as expensive. I mean, whether it’s a 400- or a 500-dollar jacket, you know, that’s our price point for our shells, it’s not…or 700 dollars like an Arc’teryx, but it’s still pretty expensive.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: You know, people don’t buy that that often. So we need stuff that people even who don’t need that kind of jacket will buy.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: I mean, Arc’teryx is kind of the…

Tom: Price leader?

Tripp: Well, price leader, but they’re the exception to the rule.  Whereas they actually do make a lot of technical…they sell a lot of technical shells. They sell three-layer Gore-Tex shells and they make leaps and bounds more than anyone else. I mean, you’d be surprised, I mean, Patagonia has like their Super Alpine Jacket, which is a really nice jacket, it’s a three-layer Gore-Tex shell, it retails for about 600 bucks, same thing as Arc’teryx, but I bet Patagonia sells a third or a quarter or less of the amount of their technical shells that Arc’teryx sells.

Tom: It’s surprising too because I would guess the Patagonia brand is much more…has much more equity than the Arc’teryx brand with the exception of the, you know, people way out on the curve who are hardcore skiers, boarders.  Like my mom’s heard of Patagonia, right? I’m sure. But Arc’teryx, no way.

Tripp: Yeah, yeah, but I mean that’s like, you know, Patagonia makes…they don’t make a lot of money on the technical shells. They make money on their pants and their Nano Puffs and their fleeces.

TREW Polarshift
TREW Polarshift

Tom: Yeah, fleeces, right?

Tripp: It’s the day-to-day kind of stuff that’s really wearable that’s how they’re making their money.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: They’d still make the really technical stuff because that’s really important. I mean, that’s important for their brand, just like we would never stop making our super-technical stuff, but I think even Arc’teryx sells a lot of other stuff. They sell more technical stuff than anything else, but they still sell a lot of fleeces and, you know, whatever, other shirts and jackets. They sell other stuff too.

Tom: Yeah. I mean, my introduction to them was when my luggage didn’t show up at a heli-ski lodge and there was another dude there who had an entire Arc’teryx outfit for me to use until my stuff showed up. And I was kind of bummed that my suitcase came because it was way nicer than any of my stuff…

Tom: Hey, so fleece, are you guys into that?

Tripp: We have a new fleece issue that’s 100% made in USA. It’s kind of cool. Check it out on our website.

Tom: Okay.

Tripp: It’s called The Vaporizer.

Mens Vaporizer Fleece:

F13_VAPORIZER_GRY_FRONT F13_VAPORIZER_SPT_FRONTheliskiing fleece mens

Womens Vaporizer Fleece:

F13_VAPORIZER_W_GE_FRONT heliskiing fleece vaporizer

Tripp: And it’s Gore-Tex power-dry fleece. So that’s the super-high-performance-grid fleece and it comes from Massachusetts, and we did the cut-and-sew in Oregon, so it’s all made in the US.

Tom: Oh, cool.

Tripp: And so it has a great like mid layer, like right over your long johns.

Tom: Yeah.

Tripp: And it breathes really well, helps regulate temperature.

Tom: My typical heliskiing outfit is a base layer, then a thin mid layer, long-sleeve, and I’ll pack a vest in my backpack, and you get a…everybody who heli-skis now has to know how to tote a pack anyway.  If it’s cold up with the vest on, but if it’s not  That seems to work for everything because you’re in and out of the chopper so fast and you’re skiing a lot and you’re skiing five minutes between runs maybe.

Tripp: Right.

Tom: You guys make a vest?

Tripp: We have a vest coming out next year.

Tom: Cool. Next year as in 14-15?

Tripp: Yeah, 14-15.

Tom: Great.  Send one to me, please.

Tripp:  Sure.

Tom:  I can’t believe how far ahead you have to think. That’s crazy.

Tripp: Yeah, it really is crazy.

Tom: That’s mind-blowing. I mean, you’re figuring out the product line before you… Well, I guess you do know what’s sold sort of preseason.

Tripp: Yeah, I know preseason, but yeah you’re just like creating products that are…yeah, so it’s just crazy. And from a cash flow perspective, you know, it’s like it’s kind of nuts.

Tom: So you expect some of the soft shell stuff to be popular with heliskiers, too?

Tripp: Like I was saying, the Polar Shift and The Vaporizer has kind of like great layers and pieces that accompany the shells.

Tom: Alright, cool.

Tripp: Cool. Well, I really appreciate you reaching out and giving our little company a little shout-out.

Tom: Hey, my pleasure, Tripp. Nice to meet you.

Tripp: Nice to meet you, too.

Tom: Bye. Thanks, bye.